Be patient. Have you forgotten all the major upgrades that have been made over the last few months? This stuff takes work from the staff to implement. We are continuing to bang out more stuff to improve the game and also player experience as a whole. The pbase overall has been growing again and I'd like to see it keep doing so just like each of you. We hear you're input, we discuss ideas behind the scenes as staff. Keep a positive attitude, enjoy the game, and lets keep progress flowing with forward momentum.
Moving Away from IMM-Permission Cabal Inductions and Promotions
This is a positive, collaborative, community discussion :)
@Mali viva Le revolucion
6 minutes ago, egreir said:
@Mali viva Le revolucion
Do elaborate.
Just a good batch of ideas, that’s all.
From my experience there is overlap between the imm running the cabal, and other imms that step in when said imm is not as available. I do think maybe there should be 1 staff member that acts specifically as a floater for all the cabals and is directly responsible for rp point distribution. What there was (maybe not now) was 1 imm in charge of a cabal and all imms awarding points with everyone filling voids. But there's a lot of logs and stuff and sometimes staff are occupied as previously mentioned and also lacks standardization. You don't want all the staff managing all the cabals because quite frankly you would lose the standardization AND the uniqueness in the differences of opinions in regards to individuals.
With 1 person, maybe never even going visible, or maybe as some kind of non-religion imm, you could have them handle journals/posts for rp points and cover gaps in cabal maintenance. Then each cabal can still have the imm for general oversight while filling in many gaps, and all the imms could still award for rp they see or are involved with. In addition, a nomination system might not be bad- E or L nominates so and so, and either A the imm approves it or B they get in if the imm doesn't block it, with a specific amount of time, maybe 2-3 days.
The problem with player run, besides potential problems that have come before, is that a mortal has even less access to off-game stuff (ie, prayer posts, different time zones etc). This can only partially be remedied by notes and the like, and the gap would naturally go to ooc contact which would lead to the old problems.
Edited
I just think T should have a baseline to shoot for. X rp, y pks, and z cabal duties. E and L obviously should vary. At that level the characters are going to be so developed you couldn't standardize. Even if it's an increased wait time (20 hours. 30 hours even) I totally understand that imms have alot on their plates and we are often difficult to deal with. I just always end up feeling like I'm just flailing around in the dark hoping I make an imm happy. I've never been promoted T, so maybe I'm a bit overly critical, and take things harder than I should. I played seviks without ever expecting anything, and alot came out of it. But I would be lying if I said it wasn't severely disheartening watch people rank from 1 to 50, get cabaled, and make T while I had been V since before they existed. After I saw it happen 4 times, I just figured I had messed up bad, and the desire to write notes, and journals, just didn't exist anymore. I know in promo and quest slots I'm at the mercy of the imm in charge, and in have to impress them to earn it. Maybe just an indicator as to what you generally look for
Edited
You might be promoted to T if you stop deleting quality characters? It seems to me like promotions are your goal and you base your value on receiving them in comparison to other people. Find something to work on each day and if you are burning out, slow down. Take a week off and come back, but don’t take every day at your same cabal rank as an insult.
Not to mention, if you’re going to be in Nexus not only should you fully expect competition and infighting, you should go in planning to do that yourself. Nexus is a very carpe diem type of cabal. You don’t have friends so if you don’t believe in yourself, who else is supposed to? You’ve got what it takes, just dig a little deeper.
I rarely delete a serious character before 200. It isn't the goal to be promoted, but it's obviously a merit badge per say. If 225 hours, and 230 rp points isn't enough the I personally shouldn't be there. Yes it may be vane, but I do enjoy recognition for the time I put in. The bottom line is everyone plays because they enjoy it. I love making the place feel a bit more alive, and real, I love interacting with people and rping. I love writing histories and journals. But if I'm being punished for deleting characters a year ago, I can't do anything about it. I play for fun, and when it isn't fun I move on is all. Sure I've rage deleted, I've been annoyed, and deleted characters. It's not even about not being promoted, it's about having no idea what to do in order to be promoted. I wrote journals, rped, involved myself in plots, tried to start my own, developed relationships, let my character organically evolve. I can't just be a blind squirrel trying to find a nut. That isn't fair.
Edited
Ok. So I am one of the worst pkers. I can lose a dozen or more times just to get lucky once. I do not think PK is an altruistic deciding factor for anything really. Syndicate NOT withstanding.
I generally achieve my goals here. I think most immortals would rather have subjects with a die trying attitude over one who avoids death by avoiding duty. This IS not a slight toward you TKO. Your careful, thete is nothing wrong with that. And Lloth actually stated you could PM her if you wanted to know why this one did not get T.
I have not been playing. Reading your good bye thread my instinct makes me believe your combo could become too powerful with too much cabal power. I look forward to coming home and running with you again.
@Lloth maybe you want to expand.
on the flip side. They are player run cabals? Hell wuggo runs watcher.... so what’s the problem?
I'd really like to stress this isn't me saying I expected a promo. This is me saying I clearly have never ever known what it takes to get promoted to T, while others clearly do. That is what frustrates me. I'm accidentally toeing a fine line between expressing my opinion, and expressing a sense of entitlement I don't want to express at all. Imms have the games best interest at heart, and often players have their best interest at heart. I accept that, even if sometimes that puts me in a position I find distasteful. This was never ever meant to be a knock on lloth, or crying that I shoulda been a promotion. I deleted because I felt it was obvious I didn't have what it takes to be T. Yet.
@egreir, King of the NecroThread.
Moving on:
4 hours ago, 'tarako said:
I just think T should have a baseline to shoot for. X rp, y pks, and z cabal duties. E and L obviously should vary. At that level the characters are going to be so developed you couldn't standardize. Even if it's an increased wait time (20 hours. 30 hours even) I totally understand that imms have alot on their plates and we are often difficult to deal with. I just always end up feeling like I'm just flailing around in the dark hoping I make an imm happy. I've never been promoted T, so maybe I'm a bit overly critical, and take things harder than I should. I played seviks without ever expecting anything, and alot came out of it. But I would be lying if I said it wasn't severely disheartening watch people rank from 1 to 50, get cabaled, and make T while I had been V since before they existed. After I saw it happen 4 times, I just figured I had messed up bad, and the desire to write notes, and journals, just didn't exist anymore. I know in promo and quest slots I'm at the mercy of the imm in charge, and in have to impress them to earn it. Maybe just an indicator as to what you generally look for
3 hours ago, 'tarako said:
I rarely delete a serious character before 200. It isn't the goal to be promoted, but it's obviously a merit badge per say. If 225 hours, and 230 rp points isn't enough the I personally shouldn't be there. Yes it may be vane, but I do enjoy recognition for the time I put in. The bottom line is everyone plays because they enjoy it. I love making the place feel a bit more alive, and real, I love interacting with people and rping. I love writing histories and journals. But if I'm being punished for deleting characters a year ago, I can't do anything about it. I play for fun, and when it isn't fun I move on is all. Sure I've rage deleted, I've been annoyed, and deleted characters. It's not even about not being promoted, it's about having no idea what to do in order to be promoted. I wrote journals, rped, involved myself in plots, tried to start my own, developed relationships, let my character organically evolve. I can't just be a blind squirrel trying to find a nut. That isn't fair.
Promotion to T usually does have a baseline to shoot for and Lloth (among others) has made it clear in the past what that entails. There's a bit of wiggle room because there needs to be, but it's there. It's also been said that all cabal Imms have at least a rough road map for promotions for when another Imm needs to step in. And consistency.
Quote
Lloth 01/09/2018
Reavers are expected to show PK power. They are also expected to lead the conquest of lands more proactively. I also factor in aggression, what they can be expected to achieve for Lloth, and RP.
Pandy are expected to show a whole lot more RP than Reavers. They should be focused on deception, and in fact focusing on PK more will likely result in being stuck at V for a long time.
They should be the ones making strategy for alliances/wars/trades, and ensuring that Nexus comes out on top in any global plots
Both sides should at least give lip service to Lloth. If you challenge her, or deny her claim to be the only true God(dess) of Aabahran, don't expect to get far.
To be very basic:
Reaver - fight often, fight hard, play the part of a conquerer.
Pandy - scheme, deceive, play the part of the strategist.
This may or may not still be accurate.
What (little) I know of Seviks' RP, I feel it was more self-serving than it was to further the Nexus. I'm likely wrong, though.
Generally speaking, if you feel like you've been either passed up or feel like you're not being promoted fast enough, maybe it's time to ask the cabal Imm what they're looking for. Do it either in game or on prayer. Maybe they're looking for something in particular for your character. Maybe you goofed and didn't realize it. At least, this is the impression that I get from them. They should be more than willing to sit with you and work things through. Either way, do it sooner rather than later. You'll be less frustrated trying to figure out why you're not being promoted, which means fewer tears on both sides. You'll also know what goals you'll need to accomplish and whether or not you'd be willing to reach them.
I've found it easier to get promoted if I've acted like I've already got the position. Same goes for subtle (or not so subtle) hints via internal notes and/or journals.
The recent additions to this thread aren't talking about this, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway as it still pertains to the topic at large. As far as Imm-permission for inductions go, this should not be an issue anymore so long as the cabal has an Elder or Leader, though I know this isn't always the case. Same goes for faster promotions to V as well as promotion to Trusted shouldn't be as large an issue if you've got a mortal Leader. Pester them first.
Edited
49 minutes ago, Magick said:
I've found it easier to get promoted if I've acted like I've already got the position. Same goes for subtle (or not so subtle) hints via internal notes and/or journals.
There is wisdom in this.
a 240hour character is the equivalent of playing through and beating 3 large AAA RPG games. Incredibly rich and rewarding experiences where you are in control of your time/risk/reward ratios. This dying game has no respect for the time you put in unless you're living up to some other person's expectations. It's a sad truth that you've got to swallow, first, and second learn how to play the 'game' in that regard. idgaf anymore about cabal promotions or who likes my character or not. i'm here to satisfy personal whimsical desires and that's it. I gave up a long time ago letting the fact that I didnt' dance well enough as some immortals puppet be the deciding factor of my enjoyment in this game, which again is sad, as most "cool" things in the game are locked behind that very thing. You didn't get promoted to T, which is hardly a huge thing in comparison to a tattoo, or E, or L....all because you didn't please someone else in online enough to make them feel you "earned" something. That's the bottom line - you can either please the masters and be rewarded, or just find some other way to find fulfillment in the game. Some players like Trick and Kyzarius and Tassin have found a way to live in both of those places, that's why they consistently have very successful characters in terms of cabal promotions/rewards. If it's something that really bothers you, maybe ask one of them for some advice. My advice is to just stop caring. Don't live your life trying to please other people. Not in a game, not in real life. If people don't recognize your dedication and effort, then that's on them. My sense of worth doesn't depend on whether or not some dude behind a keyboard playing an Immortal in a game that is barely hanging on by a thread likes what I'm doing.
In my experience Imms reward balls.
Then again I usually go for the underdog cabal and often am fighting established beasts of characters.
I've found a combination of tenacity, grit and a little RP go a long way.
I'm not saying anyone who isn't T doesnt have any of these qualities, just pointing out what has worked for me in the past.
@Magick thank you. That absolutely still applies. When I have Vs, I give them a test. Passing that test earns them a promo.
Is the character Lloth clear that what she's saying is a test? No. I fully admit that it isn't, but that is the point. But if you follow the guidelines that magick quoted, you will notice that you get promoted. The part that really has come into play in the last 2 months for Nexus is denying Lloth, or not giving her lip service. If you want, I will be very specific in this thread as to why only one V got promoted.
My thought is if a mortal isn't living g up to the expectations of their immortal superior, they should be nudged in the right direction, and not be allowed to just wander in pointless circles for a hundred hours thinking they are doing well. I wish I had copied my journals, and notes. The RP came across as self serving by design. The truth is I was doing exactly what help pandemonium says I should be doing(or so I thought). My complaint isn't that Seviks should have been promoted. My complaint is that seviks should know what is needed for basic promotions. The help files are all I have to go by, so that's what I did.
Edited
@'tarako magick posted Lloth's expectations for T...I guess the first place to start would be to really ask yourself, did I display these to Lloth?
Basically I want to stress beyond an absolute doubt that in no way shape or form am I mad I didn't get promoted. My frustration stems from the fact that I thought I was playing an awesome pandy, when in reality I was just disappointing. It's embarassing that my interpretation of help pandemonium was so far from what lloth wants that I was slow tracked.