Yay, that's where this thread should go. Down with consumables! Honestly, can't believe there are so many. Lets even the playing field. How about staves/scrolls/wands of bash, trip, bodyslam, etc. All those melee classes can get most of the spells of spell-casters. How about some stuff for the casters?
Seriously though, what happened to the days of vials and pills only? Now there are 1908149580915 consumables that make melees able to be spell-casters(kinda). Long sancs, cure critical, slow, haste, etc. Come on now!
most melee's dont have access to staves wands and scrolls they usually get 1 or 2 of these.. and melee's are way more gear dependent unless your a monk.
Gonna go with Sandbox on this one, these consumables were put in because we asked for them. We complained that melees couldn't compete so long that now here they are. If you ask me the people who benefit the most from them are the casters who now can use consumables to keep spells up and conserve mana.
wtf. Take bash from me and you better give my thief the sleep spell.
I have played a drow necro - they are fine. Illithid have a few more hp but you get hit less with a staff.
I think melee's have a hard enough time as it is with consumables. Any weakening on consumables makes life harder for melee's and easier for c/c's.
As for necro's - well, I saw a savant elder once with ten of a certain sanc item that gave it to all the zombies. Necro's cant' get it ie lose pets where you fight for it? - I asked how they managed and got told:
'I have friends.'
Words cannot describe my feelings.
L-A
PS - killing with powerword and no pets isn't that hard. Its more dependant on fi you're opponent is an idiot and sticks around after a few grasps 
Yea. I wish I knew what to do when someone fled, and ran away. I mean autosneak seems important, I just can't put the pieces together
If we are talking consumables - i think herbs could do with being dramatically cut down - maybe make them rot much quicker - its way to easy to get high level sanc and -ac buff, + hit/dam buffs from herbs.
But the consumable that still really gets me is the nymph heart - cure crit should not be available to everybody who can be bothered to spend 30 mins collecting a few pills from an easy to farm area. I can live with the scroll in minoma as it is really heavy now, and you can't read it in combat. I can live with the staff in high tower as you have to get through a maze, and you have to sheath or rem a weapon to brandish it. Also both of these are restricted to classes that have stave/scroll.
Having a pill that grants decent healing to everybody, that can then be stocked up in huge amounts in backpacks just imbalances things. I've fought people who had 20 - 30 nymph hearts on them, or a class that otherwise has no access to healing, i think that is just to much.
Remember kids, just because the warrior can pile up spells with consumables doesn't mean you can't dispel him in one shot.
Just to have him smoke up his sanctuary, protection and frenzy in the same round, without the need to flee.
So, we have people who play mages whining that they have a hard time against melees who bother to prepare.
Well I am sorry it is so hard for you to defeat a prepared opponent.
Now give paladins kick and flail plz.
ktnxbai.
You know very well F00x that I am referring to the lack of any real lag/disadvantage from smoking herbs in combat.
What would you think if Clerics suddenly started to recite scrolls of hellstream in combat with no lag? It's only fair.
If an invoker dispels you, there is no way you can get three different herbs from a backpack and smoke them before the invoker gets another spell on you.
I don't care what anyone says.
And one round lag from dispel has no effect on a zombie bashing, either. They don't get lagged.
You know very well F00x that I am referring to the lack of any real lag/disadvantage from smoking herbs in combat.
What would you think if Clerics suddenly started to recite scrolls of hellstream in combat with no lag? It's only fair.
you also have to understand that these people have limited quantities of herbs at any given time. Now this quantity may be high, but if you keep harassing them they will have to keep using them. You cleric will never run out of sanc sources. These people also have to be smart about when to use their buffs such as sanc. Its much more impractical for a melee to walk around with sanc at all times as apposed to a cleric which can cast at will. Your cleric can also use sanc in combat while smoking herbs, its just not lvl 50 sanc so ofcourse you probably wouldnt unless it was a last resort, but the option is there.
All that I'm getting from this is that you want the melee to have to flee and get extra lag after a dispel so you can get away and heal easier tbh. If any class has survivability problems it is not clerics. A cleric is deadly in almost every cabal and evil clerics in particular have some nasty damage output for a class with that much survivability. I just don't think you going to get any sympathy trying to claim clerics are at a disadvantage. If herbs gave lvl 50 sanc i might agree with you but those sanc's are much lower and for a reason.
If an invoker dispels you, there is no way you can get three different herbs from a backpack and smoke them before the invoker gets another spell on you.
I don't care what anyone says.
And one round lag from dispel has no effect on a zombie bashing, either. They don't get lagged.
Beat me to it. Mya you need to play mages first before you comment. Not just paladins and clerics sweetie
Also, for all the newer players out there.. use strategy. If you're that necromancer, go for the dispel AFTER your charmie hits that dirt kick on your opponent. If you're the invoker, dispel after your opponent dirt kicks you and is lagged two rounds. Sometimes timed aggression is much more attractive then just fleeing.
This would be great, if people did not have a thing called Mental saves. 
Spells unlike skills can get saved, meaning that getting a Dispel to land when you need it is quite difficult. 
So you won't need that many herbs.
But who cares, with the actual tendency of ever better herbs there is little point in arguing vs herbs. It's pointless.
This would be great, if people did not have a thing called Mental saves.
Spells unlike skills can get saved, meaning that getting a Dispel to land when you need it is quite difficult.
So you won't need that many herbs.
But who cares, with the actual tendency of ever better herbs there is little point in arguing vs herbs. It's pointless.
comforts Mya There, there. From my experience, its more difficult to dispel a cast sanctuary than an herb sanctuary. Unless they're totally decked, they have to give up saves somewhere and that fully charged staff combined with the proper race really f's people over on that.
Now, don't go giving up. Thinking autonomously is a good thing and as long as we keep this discussion going we're all benefiting each other in some way. 
You know very well F00x that I am referring to the lack of any real lag/disadvantage from smoking herbs in combat.
Alright then, I want mages to have lag for the "wear" command. If I disarm your weapon/shield and your trigger picks it up and wields it for you, you should get 2 rounds of lag.
Spells unlike skills can get saved
Not true. Skills can be "saved" too.
Am I the only one who as a c/c uses consumables? I find it great in when a zerk drops that haymaker and only drops sanc to smoke a herb and have it back without leaving combat. Sure it's not level 50 but it's not me fleeing to go rebuff. On my paladins I used to use them all the time to preserve mana for combat.