Would you play a Drow Necromancer?

You can make the excuses you want as to what is good, and what isn't. Or why you dont play some classes. The point of my challenge Mya is to get you to say that the consumables are NOT op. They are arguably the most finite resource in FL (Excluding rares). So to tell me the fact that I spent 20 real hours, and countless gold, getting a sack full of items that I 100% NEED for combat, is unbalancing. Well thats rubbish.

The fact is you take away from melee, you better take away from casters too. You wanna limit me to a CRAPPY level what, 10 sanc? whos duration is 1 maybe 2 hours, yet your fine on your cleric because your sanc is level 50-53 and way harder to dispel than my vial.

It is just complaining because we melee players are now starting to **** can you mage players

Most of these consumables have existed for a long time. It is not til recently that people have begun to understand that they should start using them.

You know, anyone who says that melees (namely warriors) don't have skills to use in combat is quite inept on that matter (playing a melee).

I don't wanna insult anyone, but I am getting tired of people with no experience in certain situations posting their opinions like they are facts.

I am sorry again dear, play a whip warrior in barbarian, then tell me they don't have skills to use.

I can go on and on with such combos, but this no penis waving contest and the senseless quarrel/thread derailments on this forum are exponentially increasing when such arguments start.

You have your love class and you are refusing to see things from their different point of views, that is fine with me as long as you don't try to force your opinion on us.

Oh, on the matter of high level consumables - if you want to remove high level sanc for melees then I want to remove high level flight items for castars/communers. That flying wand? Forget about it. You wanna fly - go quaff a potion of flight from Zenja.

Oh, on the matter of high level consumables - if you want to remove high level sanc for melees then I want to remove high level flight items for castars/communers. That flying wand? Forget about it. You wanna fly - go quaff a potion of flight from Zenja.

Word.

And forget about your lamian staff, too, and your orbs of dragon kin.

How ya'll doing?

The reason, Mya, that consumables are needed is because FL is primarily 1v1 PvP. Someone without sanc will not fight, period. If the game does not provide it to them, they will not play. As the skill level of players rises and the 1v1 becomes more intense then players get more picky on when and where to fight. Read any recent essay on survival/pk so many players mention preperation. The problem is that some players can gather more consumables than others, and I can understand why you see that as frustrating, because there will be some people you cannot attrition anymore.

On my last thief I did not consider myself prepared unless I had over 35 black leaves, 15 sources of protection, 10-20 fly sources, and 30+ gyvels, not to mention another 40+ of stone skin/bless/frenzy. Once I discovered the healing herb I got a new backpack and tried to keep a minimum of 75 healing herbs preserved in there. I would just do laps and collect, farm gold and buy/preserve. The advantage goes to the most efficient player with the most time on his/her hands.

There are two solutions to the consumable junky scenario.

1. Limit how much you can quaff/smoke in a given time period. (at least nymph hearts require you to not be full)

2. Have a bigger pbase with more large scale warfare. If cabal wars were 3v3's and 5v5's there would always be some type of communer around for support, a tank to...tank, a rogue or a mage perhaps, whatever. You wouldn't need so many consumables to compensate for bad 1v1 matchups.

edit: I rolled several drow necro's but never pinned any of them.

Yes, in my view Meeles should not have acess to high level sanctuary. This is why you have a crap-load of HP's compared to mages/communers. Want you sanctuary to not be dispelled, get mental saves. Your sanctuary level only factors in once you failed the save.

And F00x, I to do not like the Dragonkin Stave. It gave rangers, a class that had difficulty with trip almost immunity to it. There is a reason potions of flight are crap. Meeles without scrolls were not intended to have sustainable trip protection.

"I did not consider myself prepared unless I had over 35 black leaves, 15 sources of protection, 10-20 fly sources, and 30+ gyvels, not to mention another 40+ of stone skin/bless/frenzy. Once I discovered the healing herb I got a new backpack and tried to keep a minimum of 75 healing herbs preserved in there"

Great, now we stopped being a mud based on skill but one based on Pots hording...

So really someone who spends the time to gather things they need for a fight is more or less unbalancing. So all melee should use ONLY vials for sanc, only potions for fly? What about you Mya. You gonna start using only vials? No you are not, because the game does not force you to.

You whine about nymph hearts? How long does it take to get enough for them to matter? I spent time farming them as Drakken, hours quite literally. I might have gotten 30-40 at a time, but you chew through those things so fast it is not funny. I just cannot see taking away from classes that already have to depend on gear. Those nymph hearts make my warrior who just re equipped with mithril a threat again. Maybe instead of complaining about them, you need to start farming them too Mya.

No, I am going to use Vials, Pills, Ankhs and Staves.

Because my characters tend to have more options to compensate the fact the they only have 1 or two defences.

How would you feel if someone suddenly implemented a Herb/Ankh of Dodge?

Trying to fight some Invoker with your meele and the bastard started to dodge half your attacks. I bet you would not like it.

So this stems from the fact that you cannot overcome the fact that people are now fully prepping for fighting instead of grabbing 3-4 vials and going. Really man, how can you say that when the vasdt majority of what you play are goodie communers who have access to nearly every source of any buff, and mal curatives.

You wanna complain? Play a shaman who is fighting goodies who have a lamian stave. Wanna talk about annoying? It is still not unbalanced because I know that that crap DOES run out.

Really let me ask you this Mya. What is your Resolution for this scenario? Think about that when forming an argument. What will it take for you to feel that the game is "balanced" again?

Really let me ask you this Mya. What is your Resolution for this scenario? Think about that when forming an argument. What will it take for you to feel that the game is "balanced" again?

Give clerics "slay".

No actually, give HER clerics "slay"

[edit]

@ Mya - I can give you a lot of examples of mages having just as much, if not much more HP than a melee. Also, the fact that they have such a high AC compensates their lack of 1/2 defences.

Funny how you said you are FOR the removal of the drakonkin orb only because rangers can use it and never mentioned anything about that wand, which is not even rare. You so biased it's not even fun arguing with you.

No F00x. You are biased. I have zero problems with the Wand. 10 charges, hard to get, and a Wand (DK,Bards,C/C only). As it should be.

Not 25 charges of all group Flight that you can mass buy.

The Lamian Stave is Unique. If I was Shaman, you can bet I would be holding that Stave prevent it's use.

People now are not fully preparing. They are getting Unfair advantages tailored to meeles.

Another case. The Bless Staff. Why is it a staff and not a Wand? Cause now Monks,Rangers,Ninjas have access to high Bless along with their pets.

Herbs are biased towards Meele.

-Sanctuary that you can smoke in combat.

-Flight.

-Curatives.

-Frenzy.

-Protection.

They bring little to a Mage/Caster as they could do this before with Wands/Summon/Scrolls. And greatly ease their access to Meeles.

Tell me of a Herb that is purely designed for a C/C?

No F00x. You are biased. I have zero problems with the Wand. 10 charges, hard to get, and a Wand (DK,Bards,C/C only). As it should be.

Not 25 charges of all group Flight that you can mass buy.

The Lamian Stave is Unique. If I was Shaman, you can bet I would be holding that Stave prevent it's use.

People now are not fully preparing. They are getting Unfair advantages tailored to meeles.

Another case. The Bless Staff. Why is it a staff and not a Wand? Cause now Monks,Rangers,Ninjas have access to high Bless along with their pets.

Herbs are biased towards Meele.

-Sanctuary that you can smoke in combat.

-Flight.

-Curatives.

-Frenzy.

-Protection.

They bring little to a Mage/Caster as they could do this before with Wands/Summon/Scrolls. And greatly ease their access to Meeles.

Tell me of a Herb that is purely designed for a C/C?

of course Herbs are bias to melee, they need them to basically survive.

The Herbs ALSO benefit CC's. You get invokers with reliable stone skin's, clerics with flesh armor, frenzy / bless for battlemages. Everyone benefits. A smart CC will carry sanc herbs for that errant haymaker. In truth the ONLY reason that CC's get less value from herbs is because they cannot be dispeled nearly as easy, since they do not need hit/dam as a primary stat they can focus on massive saves and AC.

You WANT more value from herbs? then lets give all melee classes a dispel attck and call it a day. Unless your fighting a berserker or Monk you never have to EVER worry about a dispel from a melee opponent.

Mya, Melee may get high level sanc, but they also HAVE to focus on HIT-DAM gear to have the offense neccesary to survive. Moderate gear considered, a Melee can barely resist half of what a communer/caster can throw at them.

My cleric can FART on a glimmering staff sanc and dispel it (along with every other spell the poor sap is using) from 90% of the melee's out there. Yeah you get those few like Grum who can get geared up but the majority just get totally destroyed. Gear that provides decent mental saves is so rare that only a few players can even have the saves neccesary at a time, and a lot of these end up being CC's!

Your argument is to biased, one-sided, and if you actually looked at the whole picture you would realize how rediculous it is.

No you won't. A L50 sanctuary means that you have about 50% chance of drooping it IF you land the Dispel.

With a Vial L15 Sanctuary, it will drop almost everytime you land the dispel.

And even with Zero saves you have ~50% chance to save DISPEL MAGIC.

So that about 1 in 4 chances of droping a L50 sanctuary on a zero saves PC (both 50% events must happen => 25%). Far from your 90% chance.

Add saves and you have to be pretty insistent.

Mental saves are not that rare. Lloth circlet gives you -10 mental. Kesrick helm -6, Elf Crown -9 (1 is vs spell). Minor Globe -8.

Just there you got -10 -10 -9 -8 = -37 saves to dispel from 4 slots.

PS: Thats two Lloth circlets as neck wear.

Wow, I can't believe this topic has got so far dethreaded and that this arguement is still going. Look if melee's are that overpowered with the herbs why don't we see barbarians running around destroying everyone? Yes they're there, yes they make an elite player hard to kill who would be hard to kill anyways. They also help new players or mediocre players stay alive in a fight with the hardest genre of combat for a new player (melee). It's more equipment dependent than c/c and if you don't know where that equipment is you're gonna get hurt bad.

No you won't. A L50 sanctuary means that you have about 50% chance of drooping it IF you land the Dispel.

I have no problem with this IN GAME, I am not dwelling in your hypothetical bubble here. I also would like to point out that many players cant even down the mob to get the item in the first place. Which if they do get it, it takes up a valuable rare slot for non-double sheathing classes, and is rot-death.

With a Vial L15 Sanctuary, it will drop almost everytime you land the dispel.

same with that Herb you hate so much

And even with Zero saves you have ~50% chance to save spells.

I wont swallow this as truth unless I get Zhokril comfirming it. It does not reflect my experience in game and I have played CC's for a decade...

So that about 1 in 4 chances of droping a L50 sanctuary on a zero saves PC (both 50% events must happen => 25%). Far from your 90% chance.

you are just wrong, intelligence plays a huge part in considering mental spell success. You take a high int class (most CC's) against a low int class (most melee's) and you burn their spells right off nearly every time. even without being in Savant I had no problem. Then consdiering that once the sanc is down the CC can usually follow up with Oblit+ attacks at will...

Mental saves are not that rare. Lloth circlet gives you -10 mental. Kesrick helm -6, Elf Crown -9 (1 is vs spell). Minor Globe -8.

Lloth circ = neut, evil only

Elf crown = good only, neut only

minor globe = very rare typically only appearing ever so often.

so ONLY a neutral character can wear the circlets + the crown. To add, just yesterday the crown and circlets were both missing, and kesrick didnt have his helm yestrrday...fyi. These items also offer ZERO hit/dam, so the Melee has to sac offensive capabilities to wear any of these.

You seem to try and paint CC's as weak classes, that need some boost to handle Melees. I am sorry, just the presence of create food / water give the CC's an edge.

I have a challenge for you mya, roll up a pure Melee. Anything but a Blademaster, make it a warrior or even a zerk. Now I want you to try and kill every communer you see. I wish a report on how long it takes you to condie trying to do this...go ahead, collect all your herbs, get your glimmering staff (if you can kill the mob), and lets see if you can practice what you preach. If Communers/casters are soooo underprivelaged you should have an easy time of it.

Whats Ironic is I play exclusivly casters and communers, with the occasional BLM thrown in for flavor, and even I just cant believe the argument you are trying to sell.

What I'm getting from this thread is that Mya wants us to remove consumables completely from the game.

OK, let's do that Mya. But while we're hurting anyone who can't cast sanctuary. I demand that they not let C/C's wear armor. EVER, I mean, come on, mage running around in armor? Don't think so. You cannot wear ANYTHING except for necks, rings, light, and maybe earrings. That way a melee can maybe have a chance against your monster AC.

Or even better, you can only cast spells out of combat, yep, that's right, spells need concentration to cast right? You have to be able to focus all of your energy? Well I'm ok with that.

BOTH of these suggestions are on par with you wanting to remove all consumables. Ok, let's leave just vials in, still, I demand one or the other, because my suggestions are ALMOST as likely to happen as yours is.

I personally fail at PK, BADLY, but I'm trying to learn, I'm fairly new to the game, and you know what removing any buffs from Melee's would do? (so sue me for not rolling a healer, I play the way I want just as you obviously do.) It would be fine for people that understand the in's and out's of every class. But for someone like me that normally has a tough time remembering which room I'm in the minute I get attacked? It would mean I just die in 3-4 rounds because I'm frozen at the keys. So I should con-death 10 of the same class before I get over that and learn to adopt strategies? Or should I have an herb I can smoke as fast as my keys can go and try to either run the hell away or fight? Even when I get steamrolled (which is becoming less, but I'm still not that good), I can at least hope that the class uses a couple of skills I can log back and know what they do.

THIS IS A GAME, NOT A JOB! I'm playing because it's fun, not to constantly get steamrolled by your fabled dwarven combat cleric because he has every buff, throws on holy hands and walks over everything in sight. If I wanted to waste time like that, I'd go play the Pokemon MUD. Then at least my Pikachu will be funny lookin if nothing else.

/end rant, /end thread, /end world.

If you cannot wear the crown, wear the helm or the Horns of chultu for -7 mental. Lloth Circlet is free for all.

So what if you don't get Hit/Dam from the Eq. I also don't get Hp/mana from it. In fact the Lloth Circlet harms HP/mana, talk about Meele bias.

"And even with Zero saves you have ~50% chance to save spells." This was meant to be dispel magic. Some spells are crafty.

Gathering consumables is to hard for you? Play a C/C. Don't blame me.

And some of you need a chill pill. Just because I am arguing something you do not argue with, it does not makes me the the Spawn of Satan.

Way too much to even respond to.

In short: It is flawed logic to assume that any dynamic not designed to give clerics the upper hand is unbalanced.

No need to answer Z. Just be happy and have fun, so that you can keep motivated coding for the mud.

This kind of arguments is just our way to have fun and bond. Thanks for not locking it.

But since you are here what you think on the original question. Would you play a Drow Necro? Why yes, Why not? Would the Ankh thing give you stress?

There are so many sources of sanc Mya. I think your problem here is there is not viable sanc that you WANT to use. What is stopping drow necro from getting that quest item that is 50 charges of level 50 sanc? Why don't YOU use those sanc herbs? I keep herbs on my casters incase I am dispelled inc ombat, stuck in warlord gauntlet and don't wanna flee out, stuck in a locked nopass door etc etc.

I would take Illithid because shock is way overpowered. (Kidding, but its very useful)