Would you play a Drow Necromancer?

Also' date=' trying to make sense of this thread is like trying to look at a paint by number than Helen keller did.[/quote']I was afraid it was just my eyes. I am glad someone else sees how abstract the original post became.

no but now I want to try it...

It really sucks when someone runs through Drkshtyre while carrying a good's plague and all the saplings die from it... damnation up the wazoo, that.

What a smaaaaaaall exageration...

Exaggeration? Wanna bet? If the player wants to come out and admit it, they can go ahead. But I'm not about to point fingers and start a flame war. It's possible. It's happened. And it will continue to happen. It wasn't at all exaggeration. Kthnx bye.

What a headache....

I can see both sides to this debate somewhat...

From my view as far as the c/c v melee debate goes regarding consumables...

-Let's look at two situations, a next to naked(or in very basics) pinned melee v an above average equipped c/c. That fight is strongly in favor of the c/c.

-Now let's look at a next to naked c/c v an above average equipped melee. The c/c has many more tools at his disposal to either a) go defensive or go offensive.

-This tells me that There is a much steeper curve to playing a melee v. a c/c. But is a melee's power spike THAT much greater given equal equipment and preparation? It can be but most often is not. That being that, I see that if we were to tone down consumables for melees, there should ultimately be a large toning to c/c's. Something akin to a multi-layered examination of the items and equipment the melee has, that tones down the effectiveness of the c/c's abilities(which I cannot fathom putting together OR being implemented.

-My opinion then is to leave well enough alone. If you choose a class that can dominate with very little preparation and equipment yet be -slightly- outmatched by a superior dressed melee, you willingly take that tradeoff to be more well rounded and more quickly battle ready, hence giving you a much greater edge in most cases.

Also, I would enjoy playing a drow necro. Illithid and demon would be better I believe, but any necro can be a scary necro

Exaggeration? Wanna bet? If the player wants to come out and admit it, they can go ahead. But I'm not about to point fingers and start a flame war. It's possible. It's happened. And it will continue to happen. It wasn't at all exaggeration. Kthnx bye.

You can in no way heal from 100-200 hp to >1k in an hour with nymph hearts, especially when you are trying to run away. I can guarantee you that.

Your example is not just an exaggeration, it's simply not possible.

But lets for one fraction of a moment pretend it actually is possible. What happens then? You see that this warrior has somehow magically went from awful to excellent condition, why do you still stay? Pussy away. Rest up and then go back fighting him. He has just burned ~25 nymph hearts.

The mere fact that people are whining about consumables speaks enough for itself. Some are lazy to bother to prepare and simply want to take away the advantage of the rest that can actually spend months running around gathering stuff which might either decay or become useless in one form or another. It's kinda sad.

I can whine just as much about the spell "cure critical" itself why do clerics have it at all, to begin with? Why do classes that are supposed to be "attrition classes" have spells like giant strenght and frenzy?

"But f0xx, someone has 50 nymph hearts in his backpack!11!" - What stops you from getting 50 nymph hearts yourself mate?

"But f0xx, they are not supposed to be able to cure critical!" - And are clerics supposed to have more hit/dam, AC and better saves than warriors while they get just as many attacks and many different affects accompanying them?

What about stone skin and flesh armor on a voker?

Someone did better than you in a fight because he bothered to prepare adequately? Why does this surprise you at all?

Really Jibber, you were the last person I was expecting this from, starting to get soft?

Its not about getting soft Foxx - the fact is that certain classes are balanced without having the ability to heal. Yes, I can go get a bunch of consumables on my cleric, but it doesn't give me bash.

You can in no way heal from 100-200 hp to >1k in an hour with nymph hearts' date=' especially when you are trying to run away. I can [u']guarantee you that.

Your example is not just an exaggeration, it's simply not possible.

But lets for one fraction of a moment pretend it actually is possible. What happens then? You see that this warrior has somehow magically went from awful to excellent condition, why do you still stay? Pussy away. Rest up and then go back fighting him. He has just burned ~25 nymph hearts.

The mere fact that people are whining about consumables speaks enough for itself. Some are lazy to bother to prepare and simply want to take away the advantage of the rest that can actually spend months running around gathering stuff which might either decay or become useless in one form or another. It's kinda sad.

I can whine just as much about the spell "cure critical" itself why do clerics have it at all, to begin with? Why do classes that are supposed to be "attrition classes" have spells like giant strenght and frenzy?

"But f0xx, someone has 50 nymph hearts in his backpack!11!" - What stops you from getting 50 nymph hearts yourself mate?

"But f0xx, they are not supposed to be able to cure critical!" - And are clerics supposed to have more hit/dam, AC and better saves than warriors while they get just as many attacks and many different affects accompanying them?

What about stone skin and flesh armor on a voker?

Someone did better than you in a fight because he bothered to prepare adequately? Why does this surprise you at all?

Really Jibber, you were the last person I was expecting this from, starting to get soft?

calm down buddy. It merely a mention. Far away is the day where either I complain about the difficulty of PK from consumables or I actually worry about someone spending (read wasting) their time running around collecting a million hearts or whatever.

Such aggression - your opinion is as valid as anyone else. Vice versa.

You can in no way heal from 100-200 hp to >1k in an hour with nymph hearts' date=' especially when you are trying to run away. I can [u']guarantee you that.

Your example is not just an exaggeration, it's simply not possible.

But lets for one fraction of a moment pretend it actually is possible. What happens then? You see that this warrior has somehow magically went from awful to excellent condition, why do you still stay? Pussy away. Rest up and then go back fighting him. He has just burned ~25 nymph hearts.

Guarantee me all you want. It is indeed possible to heal from awful to excellent in an hour with enough nymph hearts -- especially with my connection and not being tailed. Said warrior ran into Crystalmir Caverns, sad on the other end and ate nymph hearts while I tried to get to him. Came back while I had roughly 300+hp and he was in excellent health again. I guarantee I'm not lying. I guarantee it's possible.

Really Jibber, you were the last person I was expecting this from, starting to get soft?

I never thought you'd ever understand anything I've said, but I don't let it get to me. Afterall, we think so differently (and you liberally so) that I've come to not even care if you believe me or not. And like English said, it has nothing to do with being soft.

And to answer your question, it never happened again. Why? Because when said player ran off, I took off from then on. Quaff recall/run to dark room to stay away from this awesome cabal spell which literally makes it impossible to get away. From then on, it was cat and mouse while I tried to sleep up/stand up every 15 seconds to make sure he wasn't coming. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, I'm the blooming idiot

Its not about getting soft Foxx - the fact is that certain classes are balanced without having the ability to heal. Yes' date=' I can go get a bunch of consumables on my cleric, but it doesn't give me bash.[/quote']

Following your logic I can say the same about classes that don't have sanctuary.

"They are balance without sanctuary". Wanna play a melee without sanctuary?

Also, your comparison with bash is quite inapropriate too.

Just because a class doesn't have certain defensive spell doesn't mean he is not supposed to have access to it. It only means that he is supposed to have limited (read harder) access to the spell.

Bag full of nymph hearts is not THAT easy to stockpile as some of you are trying to make it look like, especially for a PK active character. Not just that, but bag can be stolen, blown up (I just had an invoker blow a backpack of mine a couple of days ago), pilfered and so on.

It's like a malform - you take the time and patience to level it then you reap the fruits of it.

PS. Some posts popped up while I was writing the reply:

@ Jibber: Are you certain that the warrior was actually using nymph hearts and not that nectar? To go from ~100 hp to ~1000 you need to eat ~25 hearts.

First you have lag from getting your heart out of your bag and then you have lag from actually eating it. It is simply not possible to get out and eat 25 hearts in one tick - you need to be eating 3 hearts PER ROUND, all that while running away from someone who is chasing you (you did say you were chasing him in your original post).

@ Aulian: Whats with this aggression thing? Just because you are used to hugging trees doesn't mean everyone who is arguing is aggressive

He claimed it was nymph hearts.

I am sure there was more involved.

also did he get the tic/ that would of given quite a bit of HP as well.

I don't like all the healing items in the game - and I'm not just talking about consumables. Red and white wants, hearts, other goodies. Its not just melee's that take stockpiling to a stupid level. I've seen other classes do it too.

Its also NOT that I can't beat said classes down either. Nor is it that I fail at playing cat and mouse with them while I heal. Mostly, its that after a few encounters when there consumables run out they log off. They will not fight. You all know the story...

I've been told by players 'Just because I won't fight fully prepared' - well, I think that perhaps consumables (of the healing variety, others seem fine) need to be toned down. Change all consumables to cure light and start making things that are being super stockpiled rare or have one cure light in them.

L-A

I am sure there was more involved.

Indeed, Jibb just cant possibly know exactly how he happened to heal himself. He has facts indeed and that is a warrior who went from awful to excellent (which could have been pretty hurt to small wounds too). How that happened though is a different question.

Perhaps it was a combo between hearts/berserk/sleep. I've done this before with my dwarf blademaster (acupuncture/hearts/sleep) and it has a nice effect indeed. Also perhaps it was not just one tick that passed and that's why I said at the start that I think he is exaggerating a bit to support his claim.

Anyway, this thread has been beaten and derailed enough.

Jesus, f0xx. The warrior told me it was nymph hearts. I also walked in on him downing one or two. It happened just like I said it. Why can't you understand, or believe that it happened?

It happened. Plain and simple. If you choose not to believe it, so be it. All of you others who are enjoying this dead horse beat, I hope you believe it can happen. Because it has, and will continue to happen.

I'm also with L-A here. It's not that I die to these people. It's that, once they do pull the healing game like a cleric on crack, and run out of those consumables, they simply log out when I walk into the same area they're in. (Not necessarily the same situation as I stated above).

Oh well I guess. Up to the imms to remove these healing items, and I strongly agree with it. Just because it's there doesn't mean that it's completely balanced and SHOULD be there. Hell, I'm sure if my melees stocked up on said items they'd have been considered power houses, too. In fact, several of my melees that were considered power houses and are still known never used those nymph hearts. I attritioned, I slept half-way across Aabahran, etc. The old fashioned way.

Make some consumables limited to 5. I'm getting tired of all of this every class has to be balanced the same way crap. Clerics have cure crit why don't warriors? You have sanc on demand so I need it too! Every class has advantages, cleric types are easier to play but a well played warrior who equips well shouldn't need 25-50 hearts to beat one. They didn't back in the day so why do they now?

Ok this is so off topic but I will say it anyway.

Lets change consumables, lets code a tolerance level in.

Every time you use a consumable you lose 1% effextiveness from said consumable forever.

We cap it at a fifty percent loss.

If you use 50 vials, from that point on your spell level, duration, and effect from vials is cut in half. (perhaps not permanently but for a number of hours?)

Vials are an example, it should hold true for all consumables.

Just throwing it out there.

Good idea, but have a timer on it because well... some consumables such as vials are low level, get dispelled easy, or run out fast and you don't want to hurt a char for the rest of their life.

Just building onto your idea, make it so all consumables/scrolls/potions put a strain on the character. Each use reduces 1% in effectiveness down to 50%. Stop using them and each hour you gain 1% back. This way it takes away from all classes stockpiling them. I don't want to hurt just melee characters here.

I still think the idea of limiting carrying of some consumables to 5 per character is good enough though. Or make it so that the more you have of each item the faster they disappear. Gyvels, vials and such you need a high amount of.

I'm gonna just make a human adventurer thief, fly to 50 and steal everyone's freaking backpack to fix this problem.

ok you can eat 3 hearts between "rounds" thats 4 hearts you can eat in roughly 6 seconds if your using ! instead of typing eat heart. so 4 5 is 20, toss in berserk and you can easily have a warrior healing close to 1k hp in a tic. Has to be perfect on timing, but it can happen people!

Also. I would like to bring up static healing items.

Nimbus, Spheres of life, sea elf ring, that neet staff, nectar, pond water, the scrolls that do 3 heals each(my personal favorite!), nymph hearts, red/white staffs.

Now I had a psi who used all of this EXCEPT nimbus. Ask anyone (minus the few who managed to beat me) my hp would easily go from awful to perfect in lightning fast intervals. I would carry around 2-3k of consumable healing, with alot of healing that would be static, and kept on usable items. It just got to a point that it was going to be impossible for 90% of the combos in game to beat me BECAUSE of my use of consumables. I believe I fought you f0xx, and you literally just quit using your nymph hearts cause every time we re engaged, keep in mind we where in the same area, I was back to full hp in less than a tic almost every time.

These items may need adjusted, I don't think anything should be able to stock 12 heal spells to use at will. I used up all my rare slots on rare consumables true, but nothing says I win like having an effective hp buffer of 25-3500.

Now justification. I doubt any of you save a couple could possibly understand the amount of time I spent gathering consumables as Drakken. I would have to leave fights and disappear for 1-2 game days so I could restock. I mean hell there at the end Jaspurr began supplying me with a whoopin with relative quickness(Sorry you never got a kill, you totally are the one person I wanted to beat me!) You may complain when your trying to kill someone who has those consumables, just like you complain about saders, and DKs. You sure as hell did not complain when they worked for you, or when that DK/Sader had nothing close to their full power did you post a prayer "Hey, I think these guys need something, they just suck!" the truth is this is a game a VERY competitive game, inevitably some people are going to complain about a mechanic that has cost them a win, or their life, or some gear. Today it just happened to be about consumables. Surely the next thing will be something just as trivial, and easy to get around. So I submit Venom Sack as the next complained about in game item.

There are so many classes against which you can put your consumables you know where.Like shamans, thieves, dark knights, ninjas, liches psionicists, monks, berserkers.I fought you with my thief Nameless and I was impressed how you was healing recalling and healing again.But temporary survival means nothing.Everyone can be catched offguard and unprepared.I cannot believe that you complain about some game mechanic that can be beaten very easy.