EXP Penalty Rearrangement 2.0

OK, here is an updated version of my old exp penalty rearrangement suggestion. This list isn't perfect, so let's NOT spend the thread arguing about moving a race/class a couple of spots up or down (i.e. Paladins are buff! They should have a higher penalty!). The IMMs can decide that level of detail if they want.

You'll notice some important changes here.

The first one is that all qclass/races (with the exception of druid) now have the highest penalties in the game---which they currently do not. A vampire (or the extremely rare avatar psi) will have a whooping 1000 exp penalty, making them the hardest to rank. A half-elf bard will have a zero penalty, making them the easiest.

Second, fewer race/class combos share the same exp penalty. A human healer and cleric are no longer the same. Certain exp penalties are common (in the middle range).

Third, this list is not intended to help classes rank more easily. Mages (who currently have a zero exp penalty to help ranking) are now mostly moved to the higher end of the scale. This list is based on the general viability of the race/class at 50. The entire point of the exp penalty system is to make it harder for strong combos to rank and to make them face harder combos at those ranks. The point is not to make it equally easy to rank each combo to 50 in the same amount of time.

Fourth, many of these exp penalties are lower than the current ones. To offset this, the IMMs can add +100 or whatever balanced number they want to the base penalty (bards + half-elves).

Bard 0

Berserker 25

Healer 50

Thief 75

Monk 100

Druid 125

Ninja 150

Dark-Knight 175

Paladin 200

Warrior 225

Cleric 250

Ranger 275

Battlemage 300

Invoker 325

Shaman 350

Necromancer 375

Blademaster 400

Psionicist 425

Lich 450

Crusader 475

Vampire 500

Half-Elf 0

Storm 25

Stone 50

Gnome 75

Human 100

Werebeast 125

Slith 150

Feral 175

Minotaur 200

Fire 225

Avian 250

Dwarf 275

Duergar 300

Faerie 325

Halfling 350

Drow 375

Elf 400

Illithid 425

Ogre 450

Undead 475

Vampire 500

Lich 525

Demon 550

Avatar 575

I'm of the opinion that raising the experience penalties for qrace/class characters is a great idea. This will stop them from harassing substantially lower level characters.

Why not just prevent qclasses from attacking anyone not pinned?

I've always liked your xp rearrangement idea.

Except some of your combos are ridiculously high. While I understand looking for game balance, this hurts the casual/moderate gamer. Nothing wrong with some things having the same xp.

My elf paladin: 200 + 400 = 600

Current elf paladin: 350 + 500 = 850

My minotaur berserker: 25 + 200 = 225

Current minotaur berserker: 250 + 500 = 750

My halfling blademaster: 400 + 350 = 750

Current halfling blademaster: 350 + 350 = 700

My ogre ranger: 275 + 450 = 725

Current ogre ranger: 200 + 250 = 450

My human necromancer: 375 + 100 = 475

Current human necromancer: 0 + 0 = 0

Avatar anything is insane. (Avoided by applying for at 50)

Likewise for undead suddenly. Demon also.

Human Clerics aren't good enough...well...humans shouldn't be incurring an xp penalty. Especially since they'll be getting a nasty one in their qrace.

For avatars, yes the ranking part would be avoided, but they would suddenly be unable to target people much lower than rank 50.

For undead/demons, that is exactly the point.

I like. Mino/sliths should be at 500 though.

Paladin should be at least 400.

Blademasters - 500.

Rangers - 350/400.

Dwarves - 350.

Just my thoughts.

I can't see re-arranging the PK ranges/xp penalties so drastically. It changes little at 50 and just makes the climb longer for more race class combos and will ultimately see more people changing what they play to the lower xp combos. It would be a whole new type of fluctuation that would eventually cause the same cycle of regurgitated complaints.

And eventually we'll probably see some class changes. Maybe a new one added. Cabal abilities change EVERYTHING for those who can reach back down.

I guess the point is, it becomes global rather than static.

Well, tbh the only thing such change would really bother are classes which gain from killing others - DKN, Crusaders, avatars. At 50, still this won't change anything.

Also, if you want to play a powerful combo, you will enter their ranges sooner than others.

Also, if you want to play a powerful combo, you will enter their ranges sooner than others.

Most power combos aren't truly power combos until you've played them a few times. AKA if played by a newb, not even close. It's false hope.

It changes little at 50

The most important thing it changes at 50 is that qraces/classes can't target below and certain very powerful combos also can't target below.

just makes the climb longer for more race class combos

Like I said, the average exp penalties are lower with this change, making ranking easier (assuming no offset).

and will ultimately see more people changing what they play to the lower xp combos

A very, very good thing!

It would be a whole new type of fluctuation that would eventually cause the same cycle of regurgitated complaints.

We call this the process of balancing. It isn't perfect, but the point is that it is far better than our very, very outdated list now.

And eventually we'll probably see some class changes. Maybe a new one added.

I hope so!! However, we can't just wait for it. This isn't exactly a tough change to make, code-wise. Just changing a couple numbers. It can easily be constantly updated as the race/class balance changes.

Cabal abilities change EVERYTHING for those who can reach back down.

I agree, but unfortunately, there isn't much the exp system can do to account for this.

This system is the next best thing to drawing up specific exp penalties for each race/class combo. Elf warrior at 100 exp but elf paladin at 800, etc.

This system is the next best thing to drawing up specific exp penalties for each race/class combo. Elf warrior at 100 exp but elf paladin at 800' date=' etc.[/quote']

Was thinking about that too, although elf warrior is not a good example for a low XP penalty

More like, drow invoker/drow warrior.

Average is lower, yes, but as it stands now, we have MORE lower xp combos. Lol...sorry, I'm tired...can't think too straight at the moment to say what I mean...

One thing that turned me off to some muds as a newb (especially ones where you could design your own race/class/skillset) was high xp penalties. Everything COOL was soooo freakin' hard to rank.

FL has the most appealing xp combos I've still ever seen.

Also, I would suggest giving rediculous combos (such as gnome warriors/BLMs, faerie thieves) negative XP penalty.

Also' date=' I would suggest giving rediculous combos (such as gnome warriors/BLMs, faerie thieves) negative XP penalty.[/quote']

falls over laughing Okay, I've said enough for now...time for me to go away, as I have no other arguments/issues with the idea.

Also' date=' I would suggest giving rediculous combos (such as gnome warriors/BLMs, faerie thieves) negative XP penalty.[/quote']

OR...we could just boost those specific combos through automasteries or other class-specific racial bonuses.

OR...we could just boost those specific combos through automasteries or other class-specific racial bonuses.

Automasteries don't change anything to be honest when we are talking about crappy stats for a certain class.

I prefer +6 strength and two size advantage than your sneak/pry/blackjack mastery.

But would you prefer zero automasteries vs 5 automasteries as a fun-loving, casual gamer?

But would you prefer zero automasteries vs 5 automasteries as a fun-loving' date=' casual gamer?[/quote']

Since I am not a casual gamer, I don't know

I guess you have a small point.