Non-PK Tier

At the risk of annoying people with too many new ideas or suggestions, what do we think about the concept of a No-PK tier? The reason I bring this up is I've trolled around many other forums, and I have found there is a large demographic of players that are looking for No PVP combat muds. Would it hurt our identity to allow a Non-PK tier of character? My only reason for bringing this up at all is that we could look to include a demographic of players that has already disqualified themselves from playing FL by not wanting to have any PK to worry about. I think this could especially enrich FL because these players will likely be much more keen on RP anyway. 

I am well aware we have a Moderate Tier, and this is amazing for getting your feet wet with PK, but I know there is a large quantity of people looking for a MUD that does not have the stresses of PK at all. We have so many great quests and zones and our RP is better than ever to allow these players a good time.

I am also aware that people can become PK immune by going Herald or Adventurer, but a broader solution might net a higher flow of incoming players. Getting to Herald and using it for PK immunity may seem like too great a process for a brand new player, and relying solely on Adventurer limits those players from experiencing higher end zones.

In terms of balance, it would just be a notch below Moderate Tier in that I would not allow Non-PK characters to collect rares. Simply stated, they would not affect any sort of item balance or availability.

Maybe this is not the best idea, but I'm all for brainstorming ways to increase our inclusivity to new players. I think it's a great direction to go.

The only issue with pk immunity is trash talking/socials. If a REPORT command were implemented so players could be dealt with when they abuse this "friendly" change, it is not inconceivable. As you say it keeps us from alienating players that seek only to RP.

Side note, holding a cabal standard should remove any PK protection, whether born of cabal skill, level, or future changes. JMO

9 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

The only issue with pk immunity is trash talking/socials. If a REPORT command were implemented so players could be dealt with when they abuse this "friendly" change, it is not inconceivable. As you say it keeps us from alienating players that seek only to RP.

Side note, holding a cabal standard should remove any PK protection, whether born of cabal skill, level, or future changes. JMO

Real trash talking is often OOC and already handled by staff. If someone has good intentions and also interest in friendly banter, they probably wouldn’t want to play a Non-PK character anyway. Honestly, it would be unlikely that I would play such a character but I see no downside to opening us up to more demographics of players. Thanks for your thoughts, FH. Always appreciated.

Again, I'm down for this type of thing. I more than likely wouldn't partake in it but I wouldn't hate on someone for playing that way. And if it brings in newbs that want to help the community grow and aren't toxic, it's good for all. They may dip their toes into the PK thing also, which will be nice for us that suck. :)

Just make adventurer be able to level to 50?

@Tarako that would limit the RP player to only being able to play 1 class. I'm assuming we're talking about people who are looking for a permanent PK free environment, so only allowing them one option wouldn't be very appealing. 

Edit: on a side note, instead of not allowing this tier to use rates etc, would it be possible to instead change the item as soon as its picked up to become common? (Will need to stop it from being transferred across to regular pk characters though). That way the player can still experience item progression and stand their ground against end game content.

Being an Adventurer caps out at 80 hours if I recall correctly. If you make it a Tier though you can play any class and race combination to your hearts content without actually taking any rares from other players. I would also suggest a change in EQ that only they can use that gives them similar stats as to the other characters since they wouldn't be able to touch things like the Ring of Accuracy. Any RP reward EQ I think shouldn't ever be made Rare/Unique because it uses up their RP points that would make said items go poof if they didn't meet the monthly minimum if they were too busy. I like the idea in general, and wouldn't mind new classes added, but allowing them to have a PK tier of no PK would eliminate the need for it. That means opening up different avenues for people to play classes that typically would be for the more heavily PK focused players that none of us imagined before.

24 minutes ago, Tantangel said:

Being an Adventurer caps out at 80 hours if I recall correctly. If you make it a Tier though you can play any class and race combination to your hearts content without actually taking any rares from other players. I would also suggest a change in EQ that only they can use that gives them similar stats as to the other characters since they wouldn't be able to touch things like the Ring of Accuracy. Any RP reward EQ I think shouldn't ever be made Rare/Unique because it uses up their RP points that would make said items go poof if they didn't meet the monthly minimum if they were too busy. I like the idea in general, and wouldn't mind new classes added, but allowing them to have a PK tier of no PK would eliminate the need for it. That means opening up different avenues for people to play classes that typically would be for the more heavily PK focused players that none of us imagined before.

Long time no see, mate. Glad you are back :)

I'm up for it. If I have to chose having someone who I can't PK or someone who isn't playing, I will chose the former 100%.

After a time they would roll a PK char.

Them being a moderate isn't a problem, because you don't really need saves vs mobs. So you can go full Hit/Dam or AC/HP.

Even if you had saves, going against L60 mobs spells makes your saves bad.

There are many non rare avg 24 weapons and the Pit weapon. Weapon knowledge is also out of window, because you don't need to PK. So a single weapon is all you need.

Also make them fear death by having like 5 or 20 lives. Better yet, a random number of lives. 🤩

7 minutes ago, mya said:

I'm up for it. If I have to chose having someone who I can't PK or someone who isn't playing, I will chose the former 100%.

After a time they would roll a PK char.

This exactly was my rationale. I would always want to be pking personally, but why exclude this potential type of player?

23 hours ago, Fridge said:

that would limit the RP player...

PK and RP is the same thing. Stop separating them.

There's no "non-PK tier" in real world. We want the game to be as realistic as posssible, don't we? 

What's the next smart idea, make the game more friendly for newbies by removing eating and drinking?

You're not making any newbies a favour by making things easier for them, or making stuff work different for them.

The PK range separates PK and RP, maybe we should remove that?

9 minutes ago, Wade said:

The PK range separates PK and RP, maybe we should remove that?

It's been done before, when someone's RP dictates it.

The bottom line is some people are not interested PK. It is not about realism as much as an attempt to be inclusive to demographics of players that we are not alluring to currently. I personally prefer to PK and RP together, but are you saying you specifically want to turn away someone who says, “I’d like to tell my story. I just don’t want to focus on a competitively violent lifestyle. Can I play your game?”

I'm with @Twinblades713 on this one. 

@f0xx I get where you're coming from. I don't agree with this line if it was solely to get new players into the current pk/rp environment. I do believe that if there are people who only want to solely rp without being involved in pk, then we should cater to that. I can't see any way that this will detrimentally affect the game, but would love some examples if others can think of them.

@f0xx RP and PK are not one and the same. You can separate them and it's seen in several characters even through the regular history of the game. Shaw? Irpel? Isabeau? They weren't removed from the PK world, but I would say that those are characters who never focused on PK and had a much higher level of RP than what most people have even today. The only reason we have a higher overall level of RP today is due in part to the RP point system. Otherwise we'd still have a lot of mindless PK and characters who are very one dimensional. Adding in a PK Tier that eliminates PK in general doesn't detract from RP, it just has a chance to add a layer in for people who play other games specifically for RP without fear of PK. I've read through a lot of reviews for games that people pay to play that are Text Based, and a lot of the reviews from players that pay for it all state that they love the fact they don't have to worry about an aspect of the game that other games aren't willing to incorporate. They also have custom made EQ via ways of pay or other reward based systems that we offer outside of payment but through RP points. If anything I see an added Tier like this as more of a win than a loss, and if it brings in players who wouldn't normally play simply because of the whole PK aspect of the game, adding in even 1 more player versus potentially losing 0+ or even never gaining another player at all is far more alluring than believing that PK is required in order to have RP.

Don't forget that as a Newbie, you don't have to worry about hunger and thirst. It isn't until you hit level 10 I believe when it starts making it a requirement.

If I had a character that could stay on with no pressure, I could potentially be in game on that character during times when I wouldn't normally be on thus increasing playercount on the who list.

That would be a good thing.

20 minutes ago, Wade said:

If I had a character that could stay on with no pressure, I could potentially be in game on that character during times when I wouldn't normally be on thus increasing playercount on the who list.

That would be a good thing.

Good point.

Counter point. Healers have no pressure. Healers get deleted. 

Not against this Idea. Just playing devil's advocate.

Personally I believe the single greatest thing keeping new players from staying is the open venting we experience on the forum. They come, they read, they say look people who play here do not like the game, and move on.

If we take time to present ideas and complaints in a positive manner, as well as respect each others opinions we can show visitors that their own opinions might not be ...... Well I won't say it like someone else did ... Trampled into oblivion.

I do like the idea of more RPO (Roleplay Only) options like that - whether it be a character tier or another cabal. I do feel that the tier would need more purpose than simply being exempt from PK.  It would be nice if these people were able to become crafters and share their crafts only with others of their kind (so that they (crafts) would not leak into the PK realm). Blacksmithing, alchemy, enchanting, provisioning, etc. would give this tier purpose and the opportunity to interact amongst themselves and have their experience be based more on discovery - (oh, what happens if I mix these reagents?). This will be a world that the PK tier will never get to be a part of unless they choose that path of Roleplay Only. Interest will be kept on both sides of the fence - an alternating current of addiction.

Also,

A sort of "Adventurer" cabal that has skills which provide simple tools for safer exploration  would be a nice touch. A new player could align themselves with this clan/cabal to help them in learning the world with a group whom's purpose is in fact to learn the world. This will also give them the experience of learning how a cabal works without having to undergo the savagery that takes place in standard cabal life. As it stands, the only RPO cabal options are the Cartel or the Library, which is a limited and peculiar selection.

Now this is where I find myself regarding these two posts by @Twinblades713. The concepts are sound. The reasoning behind both posts admirable. I think they would make an interesting "new" avenue which would be very much newbie friendly.

Furthermore, I believe some existing players would play this tier. As stated by @Wade as a stress free way to play, as opposed to the roll an adventurer and fiddle around tactics used currently.

I am not as some may believe opposed to change. We have seen many changes over the years. Trends if you will, that always get met with controversy. Herbs, class rebuilds, powecreep, equipment rebalancing, and honestly whatever comes next. 

The thing is, and with all do respect to @Twinblades713 , change has never presented us more new players than it has lost us regularly online players. I do care about the vets. I do want new players. But most of all, i want to support the flow of ideas presented here.

Even if my stoic hindsight keeps me from being optimistic about the Ideas.

Mas Amore.