In-House Clan Warfare

I have personally been involved and seen a fair amount of this going on. It is a issue, as far as I know, only in the Neutral/Evil clans. THe rampant killing of fellow clan members. I ask, is this really nessecery?

My idea is that killing other clan members should not be allowed. Their energy could be directed in better ways. Leave the killing each other for couping, when your character is Cabaled.

Do not get me wrong, from a roleplay perspective if a person is mouthing off to you, they should get a good beating. Killing for no reason other than I am evil and that is what I do; lacks something when thought of in the fellow clan member perspective. Even evils can stop fighting each other, why not just go kill a good instead.

That's an issue of personal rp. If your rp is I will kill every other clanmember of my clan once to prove my dominance unless they submit from the start, I don't see anything wrong with that (IF you are evil). Neutrals need a SOLID rp reason for every kill, clan or not clan, no matter what align they try to kill (Help neutral).

What better way to prove you're the best candidate than by killing off the competition?

I certainly see no problem with in-house fighting, especially in the all-align clans. Tribunal, for instance....if your undead is trying to join Tribunal and my Paladin has a say in it, he's going to make sure no undead survives long enough to enforce the law. He may not kill you in town, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if you're caught outside of town you're dust.

Just because people have similar goals and wants it doesn't mean they want to or have to work together to achieve them.

I certainly see no problem with in-house fighting, especially in the all-align clans. Tribunal, for instance....if your undead is trying to join Tribunal and my Paladin has a say in it, he's going to make sure no undead survives long enough to enforce the law. He may not kill you in town, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if you're caught outside of town you're dust.

Just because people have similar goals and wants it doesn't mean they want to or have to work together to achieve them.

One of the weirdest things I'd ever seen in-game was Vhalen being told by Militia paladins and elves that he had their support.

I've had discussions before about not just in-house fighting, but full-looting in order to slow down a clan members progression to keep him from getting your spot. In an evil - or even neutral - clan, I see that as legit. If you are my competition, I want you taken out. I may (depending on my char's RP) try to keep you below me as long as possible by forcing you to spend your time re-equipping rather than leveling. That opens me up for th eposition I want, while you are too young to be a threat.

Capiche?

I don't really see that happening in the Watcher clan. It just doesn't make any sense. It should be expected in the Syndicate clan, sure, but I'm not quite so certain about the Tribunal.

I can see valid reasons to kill other clannies in Battle, Hourglass, Despair and Cartel, and I can also see reason to kill each clan's respective Cabal's members whilst you are just a clannie too, and not get penalised (unless the Caballer you killed takes offense and greatly opposes your induction to the Cabal ). Sacred Oak and Hope? Big no-no.

Militia is debatable, IMO.

Dey

The Tribunal is an empire. Some mitilias strive for power. Evil militias could definitly do it. Neutrals, doubtful. Very.

I would argue that Neutrals and Goodies could do it too (though Goodies not killing other goodies obviously), simply because they disagree with the ideas of the other people who want to get into power.

Paladin - "There are too mamy damn evils in Militia. They'll turn this administration into nothing but a tyranny. I must ensure they never come to power."

I say it's a gray area simply because ultimately the decision of whether it's allowed to kill clannies is down to the Imm of the Cabal, and I don't really know Prax's stance on things. With it being a Cabal that's like a 'job' as opposed to say, Nexus/Savant/WM etc. there might be a different view on if it's fine to kill clannies as opposed to say, Battle clan - obviously, there's going to be some infighting there, with people competing to be the best, or simply having different beliefs to other clannies that warrant them being killed.

Dey

Militia should be no different than any other all-align clan in this respect. People also have to remember that they need to be liked by current members enough to be voted in, so that can help stem a lot of what would otherwise be senseless fighting. But with a valid reason? Go ahead. I know I killed a necromancer in Militia with one of my militia lowbies a while back because he killed a good friend.

People can debate this all day. Though, in the end, it matters how the clan is run.

If someone is doing it to you. Write a note about it to the clan... Though make it seem like the person doing the killing is hurting the clan somehow, and thus hurting the respective cabals duties.

My personal view? If I am the highest active member of a cabal, I will not let my clannies kill eachother without a damn good reason. I feel on a personal level that they should be working together more than not.

My personal view? If I am the highest active member of a cabal' date=' I will not let my clannies kill eachother without a damn good reason. I feel on a personal level that they should be working together more than not.[/quote']

I agree and feel like the fights should be challenge based and ordered by the leader as well as carefully scrutinized by the leader once the leader has established himself/herself as the alpha dog. Whether that's through political means or the kill 'em all approach doesn't matter to me.

Why?

I see no reason why a member of say, Cartel, wouldn't want to wipe out his opposition and gain the respect of the family.

Hot Syndi Girl #1: "Hmm. Who shall we induct?"

Hot Syndi Girl #2: "Well, look at that Deykari fellow. He's dilligant in his clan tasks, and man, he's way ahead of the game. Practically wiped out all of his competition."

Hot Syndi Girl #1: "Wow, we could really use a guy like that."

Hot Syndi Girl #2: "Yeah, Deykari is so cool."

Hot Syndi Girl #1: "Yeah, I'm thinking about asking him on a date."

Hot Syndi Girl #2: "You bitch!"

Syndi #2 has couped Syndi #1!

I could see a similar sort of thing with a Neut/Evil battle clan member wiping out opposition. Or how about a member of Battle clan who follows the religion of purity and wants to become a barbarian? Why wouldn't he go out of his way to destroy any evil in battle clan? Even if I was an actual Warmaster Barbarian follower of purity, and I defeated an Evil Warmaster, I'd probably kill him/her if it wouldn't interfere with duties (such as if a Savant was logged-on).

If it's your characters RP to say "No fighting guys" as a caballer to your clannies, then fair enough. But I don't agree on a strict system of fighting between clannies unless it is a clan that you'd expect to need/want to work together or a 'blanket' system that says clannies shouldn't ever fight without good reason. With Wymsicant, I promoted the idea of in-house clan warfare and constantly conspired with different Despair members to pit them against each other. Was that detrimental to Nexus? Of course not.

Just my view.

Dey

Why?

I see no reason why a member of say, Cartel, wouldn't want to wipe out his opposition and gain the respect of the family.

Hot Syndi Girl #1: "Hmm. Who shall we induct?"

Hot Syndi Girl #2: "Well, look at that Deykari fellow. He's dilligant in his clan tasks, and man, he's way ahead of the game. Practically wiped out all of his competition."

Hot Syndi Girl #1: "Wow, we could really use a guy like that."

Hot Syndi Girl #2: "Yeah, Deykari is so cool."

Hot Syndi Girl #1: "Yeah, I'm thinking about asking him on a date."

Hot Syndi Girl #2: "You bitch!"

Syndi #2 has couped Syndi #1!

I could see a similar sort of thing with a Neut/Evil battle clan member wiping out opposition. Or how about a member of Battle clan who follows the religion of purity and wants to become a barbarian? Why wouldn't he go out of his way to destroy any evil in battle clan? Even if I was an actual Warmaster Barbarian follower of purity, and I defeated an Evil Warmaster, I'd probably kill him/her if it wouldn't interfere with duties (such as if a Savant was logged-on).

If it's your characters RP to say "No fighting guys" as a caballer, to your clannies, then fair enough. But I don't agree on a strict system of fighting between clannies unless it is a clan that you'd expect to need/want to work together.

Just my view.

Dey

I've got no problem with that. Check edit.

Wow, after reading Deykari's fantasy clan chat log I have nothing worse to contribute to this thread.

You have to be careful, if a few of those clannies you kill beat you to induction you could easily find the cabal doesn't want you.

Or perhaps the leadership won't really appreicate what you're capable of...

Greedy Rat King: Hmm...so, what do you think of this L-A?

The Hand: Seems like he's good at what he does. He's wiped out his competition a few times, taken out some prime marks too...

Greedy Rat King: Ahh, a reall go getter eh? Someone who likes to move through the ranks fast with a knfie?

The Hand: That's certainly L-A.

Greedy Rat King: So, you reckon we should recruit him?

The Hand: Well, um.... do you really want him moving up the ranks with that knife. I mean, he's pretty proficient, in a week he'd probably a Collector

Greedy Rat King: Yes, I see what you mean. A useful chap, but not really Syndicate material, wouldn't you say?

The Hand: Your thoughts parallel mine.

L-A has been UNINDUCTED!!

And don't think there aren't characters out there with the RP fitting this.

Cheers,

L-A

Good call on that L-A. You do too well, Syndi might not want you coming up and couping them.

I'm of the opinion that any clan, minus Hope, could have a reason for in-fighting. Syndi is obvious, Nexus is the same, Watcher (sorta) you could do the whole, only the strong survive deal, Savant evil/good, Warmaster evil/good plus it's a good way to prove you're the best, and with Tribby, evil/good.

I think what the whole thread boils down to, is your own character's RP. Only the clan Imm should decide whether it's 'illegal' or not.

You have to be careful, if a few of those clannies you kill beat you to induction you could easily find the cabal doesn't want you.

Or perhaps the leadership won't really appreicate what you're capable of...

Greedy Rat King: Hmm...so, what do you think of this L-A?

The Hand: Seems like he's good at what he does. He's wiped out his competition a few times, taken out some prime marks too...

Greedy Rat King: Ahh, a reall go getter eh? Someone who likes to move through the ranks fast with a knfie?

The Hand: That's certainly L-A.

Greedy Rat King: So, you reckon we should recruit him?

The Hand: Well, um.... do you really want him moving up the ranks with that knife. I mean, he's pretty proficient, in a week he'd probably a Collector

Greedy Rat King: Yes, I see what you mean. A useful chap, but not really Syndicate material, wouldn't you say?

The Hand: Your thoughts parallel mine.

L-A has been UNINDUCTED!!

And don't think there aren't characters out there with the RP fitting this.

Cheers,

L-A

That's just RP and you roll with it. Syndi don't induct you because they're worried about you killing them to rise to power? Why not just go after each and every Syndi anyway just to kill them, for the reasons of A: Wanting to prove a point to Malanith about how you SHOULD be a Syndi and how his pathetic little Syndi's currently don't deserve the position, or B: Out of pure hatred for the current Syndi's and you just want to turn your back on them and give them all a good leathering.

Dey

That's just RP and you roll with it. Syndi don't induct you because they're worried about you killing them to rise to power? Why not just go after each and every Syndi anyway just to kill them' date=' for the reasons of A: Wanting to prove a point to Malanith about how you SHOULD be a Syndi and how his pathetic little Syndi's currently don't deserve the position, or B: Out of pure hatred for the current Syndi's and you just want to turn your back on them and give them all a good [b']lathering.

Dey

You're a sick, sick man. But I admire your RP.