RP/PK Logs

This suggestion has to do with combining the RP/PK log sections of the forum into a general "logs" section.

Is PK and RP seperate inside the MUD itself? All PK is done in the name of RP, yet these seperate forums show that there is a distinct difference (on the forum) between the two. What message is this forum seperation telling people? You are RPing unless you are PKing? You are PKing unless you are RPing?

Also, why don't the PK logs include some backstory/dialogue/motivation about the conflict between the two PCs? Everyone has at least their 'silent reason', and this could be posted along with the log to add some meaning to the encounter (even if you can't share that info IN GAME) and to share the experience of the two PCs lives with the rest of the forum. Why is PK so isolated? It is very easy to add this in, and it would be very meaningful for all.

Logs are logs, and since there is no distinction between RP and PK in game, why is there on the forum?

Also, in addition to this, I suggest that creative writing pieces (as suggested in another thread) be allowed to be posted alongside them or in the essays section. I have some poems/apps/descs/notes that could help start this out, if wanted.

Idea stealer.

Is PK and RP seperate inside the MUD itself?

Also, why don't the PK logs include some backstory/dialogue/motivation about the conflict between the two PCs?

This is a W.A.G. but I'm guessing that it's because the PK logs are for looking at the technical aspect of the fight. I can't learn anything about fighting by reading that Joe-Bob the darkknight attacked Jim-Bob the thief for stealing his widget.

RP and PK are not seperate. But RP can be just RP. But PK is both. Sometimes I want to just study part of it.

I'm not suggesting to remove the technical part of the fight, but to add a paragraph at the beginning about the intro/conclusion/story to the fight...easy enough to skip over.

Yea, because what's the point of RP, if we just skip over it? Better to just leave it out.....like we do anyway.

RP/PK logs are fine being seperate. The thing your point is missing is that....

In this MUD, RP is enforced. PK is not enforced. It's is optionable. So....

All PK must have RP.

But, all RP does not need to have PK.

So, the logs would not always be hand in hand, RP can be completely seperate from PK, thus making it deserve it's own forum sect.

I cannot simply "turn off" my PK flag. There is no "NO-PK" -option-. There are routes of more or less PK, but I cannot completely avoid it and still interact with most of the game (sub rank 10/adventurer). By virtue of this (and other things such as the lack of PK-free areas), PK is not optional.

adventurer should fit nice if you dont want pk.

What I am trying to say is:

You can choose to actively PK.

You can NOT choose to RP or to not RP.

RP logs do not require PK. And therefore, the two are automatically FINE being in seperate boards.

And furthermore, who really cares, Celerity? There has like...always? been an RP section and a PK section. This isn't even a change worth anyone's time and serves absolutely no purpose.

Alright, PK is code-defined conflict resolution. That's it. Much like real life, you cannot choose to have or not have conflict...it will happen in some way. Even if you have an adventurer, eventually, if you are actively RPing, you'll have some sort of conflict with something else. The difference is that the conflict is solved through emotes/says/whatever rather than by the code and skill sets.

As for the main thrust of this idea...it will help soften the sharp line we hold between RP and PK. Many people view these as separate entities (rightfully or not), and our atmosphere tends to actually FOSTER this kind of thinking. This change is one small step in blurring the (perceived?) line that exists between RP and PK. By adding RP into the PK logs (and vice versa, depending if applicable, like you say), it causes (or gives one more route for) people to actually articulate their thoughts/char info (and in a possible way to share with the player base, if your RP is "hidden") and the log becomes worthy of being in a RP/PK MUD, rather than in godwars.

It is nice to know that Taeim killed Suunmar in a fight, but it would nicer to know more about the two characters and why that particular fight occurred (instead of simple savant vs warmaster titles). What is Taeim's background?

Why is it that when people delete, they post their score/practice sheet and not their applications/history/bio/etc? I'm trying to encourage a stronger union between PK/RP, which has been a growing trend lately as FL continues to mature. The way the forum is set up is very indicative of how the staff/community view the game. Combining the log sections does a lot more than getting rid of a section.

Start from the inside, out. Not the outside in.

If we want to make RP/PK mesh together more, then we need to have stricter PK rules. Not make forum adjustments. OOC life will have it's freedoms, like it always has. The forum can be moderated, but if people want to show cabal skills/spells over logs via AIM, nothing can stop that.

What CAN be stopped is the functions in game. FORCING people to see RP and PK as a cohesive package.

PK logs and RP logs being combined into the same section will do absolutely nothing.

Section: Logs

Thread Title "Suunmar vs Taeim"

Thread Title" A midsummer's night dream in Valmiran"

One will be all PK (or 99%PK 1%RP w/ your suggestion)

One will be all RP (99% chance of there being NO pk in it)

Better to do it like we do it now, and just have seperate places for them both.

Again, this idea, while having a sound basis in the desire to want people to see RP/PK as one in the same, is useless.

Start from the inside, out. Not the outside in.

If we want to make RP/PK mesh together more, then we need to have stricter PK rules. Not make forum adjustments. OOC life will have it's freedoms, like it always has. The forum can be moderated, but if people want to show cabal skills/spells over logs via AIM, nothing can stop that.

What CAN be stopped is the functions in game. FORCING people to see RP and PK as a cohesive package.

This would be ideal, but I wanted to do this easy change because I thought there were would be a lot less opposition towards it.

No, it wouldn't change the content of the posts already there. What it does is make a cosmetic change that will be a step in changing the community ideology. Here:

There is a fountain for green people and a fountain for blue people. We can make it so that there is one fountain for both of them. Maybe they will continue to be green and blue, but they will start to view the two seperate entites (green fountain/blue fountain) as one: fountain. Eventually, you'll have a mixing of the two (ideas about fountains that is...maybe the people someday too!)..

This is how civil rights/most other massive social policies get enacted. You start out with the two things you want to combine/blend/get along and you point out their similarities, not their differences.

So no, the old content stays the same. What about future content? Where do we put that log with gasp PK and RP, should it actually come around in our PK/RP MUD? Those logs are tailered for the forum section they are intended (PK or RP as now). That doesn't mean everything will always be that way.

PK logs are going to be filled with PK, and MAYBE minimal RP.

Rp logs are going to be filled with RP, and MAYBE minimal PK.

------UNTIL------

Things change IN GAME and make it the other way. In a perfect world, yes, PK would be filled with RP. But, that will never happen, until 50% of the playerbase is banned or forced to make changes to the way they play the game and to the reasons they play the game.

So, the main conflict we have here is this:

You believe that to make this transition, we must decisively change the foundations/rules/laws of the game.

I believe we can foster a certain environment that slowly works to blend PK/RP more and more through ideological means (this case: cosmetic/subtle changes), without a major disruptive change.

Either one of us or both may be wrong or right, but there is nothing bad about encouraging idealism. The effect is there, even if not groundbreaking and conclusive. Why so actively -discourage- it? Even if in the end, it results in nothing more except that 1% increase in RP (which is sizable actually!), isn't that worth 5 minutes of the admin time?

I'm not discouraging idealism. I'm just saying it's a waste of breath and time, for a "subtle" change that will not give you the results you are looking for.

Making one section for logs is not going to have everyone in game RPing their guts out, ever.

I could care less, either way, because in my opinion, both sections could be done away with. I don't agree with PK log filtering (not the cabal/qrace editting, mind you) in the first place. And unless the RP log was something I was in, or involved in, I more than likely won't read it.

I'm just here to give you a hard time and debate the fact that the results you are looking for are not going to be achieved by a cosmetic change. Because you are not looking for cosmetic results.

I for one think rp and pk should be kept in game. The forums serve to have classic examples of rp and pk for browsers enjoyment and maybe for noobies to get some ideas. Current RP should be taking place IG, we dont want people starting to rp on the forum more and less in the game. Current pk also should not even be posted IMO, I would like to see logs only of characters that are no longer active. I just dont see a reason for people to be posting tons of current rp/pk stuff, not everyones relations is everyones business.

I frankly see logs of either type simply as a way of showing people something cool that they didn't see in game because they weren't involved.

They are separate just as different textbooks exist for different subjects. If you want to study cardiology, you'd get a book on cardiology, not anatomy per se, though they are obviously inter-related and inseparable. PK logs are for garnering information to help you grow in that arena, while RP logs are for the same thing in a different arena.

Personally, I see RP already there in the PK logs. For instance, in the Lerris vs Olom log, when it's clear Lerris is done for, he tosses Olom a salute for winning the battle. That's RP to me.

I think that seperate RP/PK log areas is fine and that it is down to discretion of the poster where logs are sent depending on the posts content. I like the idea of there being seperate PK/RP ideas, because there is an area for raw, technical PK battles to look at and the other to look at the RP stuff.

But, battles that are PART of a larger RP log, for example, a heated debate between two people, a fight in between then a debate conclusion - definately posted as an RP log in my opinion.

Dey

But' date=' battles that are PART of a larger RP log, for example, a heated debate between two people, a fight in between then a debate conclusion - definately posted as an RP log in my opinion.[/quote']

Agreed. The Orealt/Miscreant log would certainly qualify as such.

Some(maybe most) people don't have any RP reason to PK above "I'm evil. You good."(or something similarly blase).

Additionally, when it comes to some Cabal conflicts, the reasons for such conflicts is hard coded in the game. I remember my old Savant having no real reason to fight with Warmaster and I had to make up contrived reasons to kill them because the Cabal gives you no choice on the matter.