Elithior (elf invoker) vs Kotrag (feral ninja)

<956/956hp 1449/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps You tap into the Abbot's crystal staff's mana pool and reinforce your spell.

Kotrag yells 'Die! Elithior, you sorcerous dog!'

You failed.

You fade into existence.

Kotrag's bladed onslaught MUTILATES you!

Kotrag's spear charge devastates you!

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's spear charge devastates you!

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's tsuki strike injures you.

A gem encrusted spear adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite hits you.

Your fire shield injures Kotrag.

Kotrag has a few scratches. 

Elithior: [===|===|===|==-]

<835/956hp 1444/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps 

flee

Kotrag has fled!

The air thickens about Kotrag and prevents any passage.

Kotrag has fled!

<835/956hp 1444/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps You aren't fighting anyone.

<835/956hp 1444/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps 

s

The air thickens about your bloody form and halts your passage.    

<835/956hp 1444/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps 

l

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Kotrag!'

Kotrag's bladed onslaught maims you!

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's bladed onslaught maims you!

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's throat cut scratches you.

With a deft slice Kotrag gores your throat!

Kotrag's bladed onslaught devastates you!

Kotrag's tsuki strike scratches you.

"Decobru" the Gladiator Broadsword sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite injures you.

Your fire shield grazes Kotrag.

Kotrag throws his shurikens and hits you with one of them.

Kotrag's throw injures you.

Kotrag has a few scratches. 

Elithior: [===|===|===|---]

<699/956hp 1444/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps Before the Savant Cabal

  The stairs end right before your nose, surrounded by a large meadow all

about.  The unknown material or metal below your feet hums and vibrates as

strange powers of unknown and potent origins rush underneath your feet.

[Exits: north south]

     A bit of blood has pooled at your feet.

(WANTED) (Translucent) (White Aura) Kotrag is here, fighting YOU!

(Translucent) (White Aura) Slightly out of your vision stands a blurry form.

The Savant altar stands here.

Kotrag has a few scratches. 

Elithior: [===|===|===|---]

<699/956hp 1444/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps 

c hell

You tap into the Abbot's crystal staff's mana pool and reinforce your spell.

You bow your head as you call forth the full power of the arcane.

The ground erupts as Kotrag is caught in a searing beam of arcane light.

Your hellstream MANGLES Kotrag!

Kotrag's bladed onslaught devastates you!

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's bladed onslaught MUTILATES you!

Kotrag's spear charge maims you!

Kotrag's bladed onslaught devastates you!

Kotrag's tsuki strike scratches you.

"Decobru" the Gladiator Broadsword sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite scratches you.

A gem encrusted spear adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite injures you.

Your fire shield hits Kotrag.

Kotrag's blood loss scratches you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

Kotrag parries your attack.

Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Elithior: [===|===|=--|---]

<546/956hp 1430/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps 

flee

Kotrag gets shurikens from a sturdy backpack.

Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Elithior: [===|===|=--|---]

<546/956hp 1430/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps 

Kotrag's bladed onslaught maims you!

Kotrag's spear charge MUTILATES you!

Kotrag's bladed onslaught devastates you!

Kotrag's spear charge devastates you!

Kotrag's bladed onslaught devastates you!

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's tsuki strike wounds you.

"Decobru" the Gladiator Broadsword sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite hits you.

A gem encrusted spear adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite scratches you.

Your fire shield injures Kotrag.

Kotrag's blood loss scratches you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

Kotrag dodges your attack.

Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Elithior: [===|==-|---|---]

<349/956hp 1430/1449m 491/492mv> D 15 646cps 

Steps in the Meadow

[Exits: north east south]

     You notice a few spots of blood on the ground.

Kotrag's palm strike scratches you.

Catching you off balance and unprepared Kotrag sends you sprawling with a forcefull push!

<347/956hp 1430/1449m 490/492mv> D 15 646cps You aren't fighting anyone.

<347/956hp 1430/1449m 490/492mv> D 15 646cps 

c tele

You tap into the Abbot's crystal staff's mana pool and reinforce your spell.

---

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Kotrag!'

You draw your weapon.

You wield the Abbot's crystal staff.

A sighing chorus of angels whispers in your ear.

You fade into existence.

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's spear charge MUTILATES you!

Kotrag's bladed onslaught maims you!

Kotrag's form blurs with speed!

Sharp pain explodes in your leg!

Kotrag's strike injures you.

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's bladed onslaught maims you!

Kotrag's tsuki strike injures you.

"Decobru" the Gladiator Broadsword sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite grazes you.

A gem encrusted spear adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite grazes you.

Kotrag throws his shurikens and hits you with a mass of them.

Kotrag's throw MANGLES you!

A well-off citizen walks north.

Kotrag's bladed onslaught MUTILATES you!

Kotrag's spear charge misses you.

You parry Kotrag's attack.

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's bladed onslaught decimates you!

Kotrag's tsuki strike mauls you.

A gem encrusted spear adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.

Kotrag's flaming bite hits you.

Your magic misses Kotrag.

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps 

w

No way!  You are still fighting!

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps No way!  You are still fighting!

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps No way!  You are still fighting!

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps 

flee

No way!  You are still fighting!

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps No way!  You are still fighting!

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps Affects:

 11   -   5   4   8  24  

 san pro prs arm shi din 

Spell: fly            : for 24 hours

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps No way!  You are still fighting!

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps No way!  You are still fighting!

Kotrag is in excellent condition. 

Elithior: [===|---|---|---]

<246/956hp 1398/1449m 266/492mv> D 23 651cps You flee from combat!

Before the Temple of Neutrality

[Exits: north down]

     A granite fountain is here filled with water for the thirsty.

Kotrag throws his shurikens and hits you with a mass of them.

Kotrag's throw MANGLES you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

<162/956hp 1398/1449m 265/492mv> D 23 651cps 

flee

Kotrag rides in.

<162/956hp 1398/1449m 265/492mv> D 23 651cps 

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Kotrag!'

Kotrag's bladed onslaught maims you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

You parry Kotrag's attack.

Kotrag's bladed onslaught devastates you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

Kotrag's spear charge MUTILATES you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

Kotrag's form blurs with speed!

Sharp pain explodes in your torso!

Kotrag's strike wounds you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

Kotrag's bladed onslaught MUTILATES you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

Kotrag's tsuki strike hits you.

You are mortally wounded, and will die soon, if not aided.

You have been mortally wounded!!

You are too hurt to do anything for a while.

Anonymous poster hash: 49b25...dea

Fury op.

You need firestorm.  You need to take his openers away.   You can get that fireblind, which would turn it around very quickly for you.  

He will push you so you just keep recasting the firestorm.  

Call lightning beats hellstream in this matchup.

Hellstream has the lure of disintegration, ignore it, it will only lead to this end. It is an awesome spell, but not for this match. Firestorm would have given another autodamage every round. But this was Kortag, and he is not a newb, so he would not stand in a firestorm. My nickel says the difference would have been 2-5 rounds in battle length, not the end result. Dispel Magic coupled with firestorm MAY have made a bigger difference, but again, its Kortag.

Kotrag is king of the openers. Like Kyz said, you need to keep your Firestorm up at all times.

He also has the fire protection cloak, so don't use fire spells on him. I swear that it harms him less than ice attacks.

Also, call lightning. Full steam call lightning spam.

4 hours ago, f0xx said:

Fury op.

It is, but what we see in here is the OPness of the fire resist cloak. So much that he doesn't even needs to use Fury or go full steam.

He is doing high damage in normal meele rounds.

956 - 835 = 121 dam

699 - 546 = 153 dam

546 - 349 = 197 dam

He doesn't even needs to dirt.

The Invoker doesn't stands a chance. I would not call it a balanced fight a regular invoker vs a fury spaming feral, but when that feral loses it's fire vuln, it becomes a joke. People tend to forget that Feral get a ton of bonus for the fire vuln. They have:

• above average stats

• can sense sneak flees

• racial parry/dual parry/ dodge ???.

• fury to make opponent mages fail 50%-33% of spells. Which fully covers the fire vuln from spells.

• extra attacks that put his meele output bonus well over an Ogre.

And the price for this is a fire vulnerability, that in the case of spells can be very reduced with AFF saves, since fire spells get a proportional damage cut to the aff saves, it's not just a save or don't save like Ice. And the fire vuln is partially compensated by the extra meele damage from the extra attacks.

Ferals compared with undead, are a dream.

Kotrag is one of the best killers in the game.  You went about this all the wrong way.  Dont even use a fire shield against him, Ice shield is actually more potent in this situation due to his cloak and will help you should you want to use an ice storm with it to destroy his weapons.  Though I would not recommend either of those, Looks like he is using a magical weapon as primary and spear as second mana shield would have protected you, people tend to use magical weapons these days, were I playing an invoker I would probably just say forget it to the Ice or fire shield period, solely run around with a  mana shield, making sure that my foes has no choice but to use a mundane weapon  They just dont hit you as hard as magical weapons, then you have the choice to cancel the mana shield and surprise them with fire or ice, and can possibly get the kill quickly before they realize what happened.  I suggest only call lightning, as his armor will light up like Christmas.

 

You will be pushed and need to be careful at spamming spells, his murder rounds are insane.  You need your firestorm up.  This fight is tough for an Invoker period because your gonna get caught spamming at some point.

 

Really though, MAGE vs KOTRAG = DEAD, just because its not a good matchup.  There is a reason he is one of the top hunters.

 

 

 

Anonymous poster hash: 6ca90...262

19 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

Looks like he is using a magical weapon as primary and spear as second mana shield would have protected you, people tend to use magical weapons these days, were I playing an invoker I would probably just say forget it to the Ice or fire shield period, solely run around with a  mana shield, making sure that my foes has no choice but to use a mundane weapon.

Anonymous poster hash: 6ca90...262

Looks like he is using sword and spear, and both are doing mundane damage in this log.

The best advice given so far is to minimise his openings and try to avoid fleeing. Autothrow damage is a doublesheath ninjas bread and butter.

I do not know if tsuki strike is mundane or magical or maybe internal, so not sure mana shield helps against that.

You need ways to heal yourself and to match his damage, I think the advice to try call lightning might be good.

Never open with a mental or mal spell against someone with high melee output - with saves as they are now, it's not likely to land, and it gives your enemy a free round of attacks.  Only open with aff spells.

So I'm just figuring out there's a cloak for ferals that eliminates their vuln?  Wow...

There was a mask for dwarves that removed their vulnerable but it was deemed op.   I agree that the cloak should not exist

But I don't play so it really don't matter to me.  Get your AC up.  Sit with firestorm with bad weather.   He pushes just recast it.  Get your lightning spams in.  Hell if he starts pushing just start spamming lightning.  He will have lagged himself with the murder to give u a couple freebies.

The issue with items that reduce/remove vulns are interesting.. On one hand I say get rid of it. These races have vulns for a reason - they are so strong that they NEED that balance. But, on the other hand I see more and more weapons added to the game that HIT these vulns. IE: Storm Forger/Fire Poker. So, if we keep adding in weapons that can hit that vuln, at what point does it become TOO easily accessible? Thoughts?

 

EDIT: Also, why does it need to be an all or nothing? Its either in the game or its not.. I don't know the stats of the item, but does it TAKE away something on an equal level that it GIVES? 

By this I mean if it gives you fire resistance, what about lowering hit/dam or second attack prof, or something comparable. That way you have to make a SACRIFICE for the protection it gives instead of just gaining. 

You want to lose the vulnerability of a feral? Then you also lose the mini-haste of the feral. Is that an equal trade off depending on your opponent? You decide.

As true as godwin's law, whenever we discuss pvp balance the longer the discussion the higher the % chance that someone will say, "well if they are so overpowered then why arent the dominating the pbase?"

In this case we actually have an example where one is dominating the pbase.

does that mean the cloak is to strong in general? Maybe...

but then again Kotrag is very fast, knows his class, gears himself dynamically.

Do we want to balance around the extremes? Now if that player gets bored or whatever and drops the character and another feral just slides in to replace him, maybe we should bring out the nerf bat...

I like Trick's idea that if a piece of equipment eliminates a vuln it should have some kind of consequences as vulns are there for a very specific reason.

So much complaining about a single piece of equipment....

A. Kortag would most likely continue to survive and prosper even if the item did not exist. This fight was not close enough for the cloak to be the difference.

B. If the cloaks affect removes the feral vuln and that becomes OP, then why not alter the cloak to be usable and place a timer on its affect? No Permanent invulnerability see? Or as Trick suggested balance the equipment with deficits. First thought, seems I see the cloak complaint most often when a stealthy feral has it, perhaps a major minus to hide?

It's not a matter of how strong Kotrag is, or would be even without the cloak.

It's not even a matter of complaining, in my opinion.

It's a matter of consistency in game mechanics. I'd also vote to not let gnomes or giants use the ring of abyss.

I like the idea of unique vuln cancelling items in principle. In a game with 100 ferals where only 1 has the item makes sense.

However I think in the current FL with this current pbase size vuln cancelling items don't make sense.

Looks like the best solve for this  is to take it from him.  Then let it float around on a locker char forever like so many items do.

Well the only issue I see with something like this specifically for ferals is how often are there more than 1-2 active ferals?  Basically that means one gets no vuln + all the delicious feral perks.  Doesn't seem logical from a balance perspective.

It should be an all out feral brawl for the cloak.

We all know the best of the best will have the cloak and it will only make him even farther above the rest.   It goes with most all items in the game.    Once an elite makes his perfect god suit he is extremely hard to kill.