Time to Get Rid of Minister

I think it's time to get rid of Minister and perhaps bring something else to the table. It is probably one of the most useless spells for a evil cleric ever since it's been gimped down to nothing.

My last Cleric was Jevrax and I am pretty sure he was the reason for it. However, I don't know if they have made it even worse since I have been away but it doesn't lag anyone. I have fought people wearing the basics of basics and they still don't get lagged by it. I understand that sure.. they will lose there mind and be unable to regain that.. but really?

No wonder I don't see any evil clerics about. Perhaps just make evil clerics be able to gate like good ones. There is absolutely no point to Minister now. The only way this will land properly is if someone is naked.

Perhaps we it can be removed all together and be substituted with anything else.

Just a thought.

No point in minister? You have to be kidding me...

does he mean sermon?

dude, sermon is mean man- you dont have to be naked to get it landed on you.

Sermon has other negative effects other than the stun...

When Jevrax was around, sermon/minister looked for saves that people no longer could get (saves_vs_breath), hence the ease of it landing and f-ing people over.

Then they made it saves_vs_mental (I think it's mental?) and it got a little harder to land, but still was able to land on pretty well equipped people.

I honestly don't think having an 8 hour, 4 round lag every hour spell is REQUIRED to play an evil cleric. I played an evil drow cleric in Tribunal and did just fine, in my opinion.

Minister/sermon also completely negates mana regen. Very useful.

All I am saying is might as well get rid of the Stunning factor and perhaps ad something else. I have been ministering near naked people and the second my dooming sound hits them.. they still are able to dirt within seconds and flee and move around like nothing and they are HALF NAKED.. crazy heh.

If they have gimped it this bad they might as well just get rid of the stunning factor and add another affect.

Minister was broken for years and years, and they finally fixed the saving roll to include a mental check. The fact that it no longer is a game winner for evil clerics doesn't mean it needs to be buffed. Evil clerics have one of the best balances of survivability and power in the game. I don't think they need anything more or less than what they have now.

The duration of minister has been increased so maybe you should revolve your strategies more around that? Also I've felt the stunning effect to be pretty fair and consistant with regards to the saves and race characteristics I've had at those times.

Well, minister was always a PITA when I played Philantees. I had ring of abyss and decent mental saves for a while there just to combat it (it was screwing me pretty hard). Unless its been debuffed since then, from the other side of the fence, I assure you its just fine.

change log

[08/05/07]: Sermon's duration has been increased.

[08/05/07]: Sermon is now subject to a saves check on the hour.

[10/29/06]: MAJOR FIX: Bug with clerics sermon not being saved against properly fixed.

The big problem with sermon efficiency is the fact that it checks saves every hour, and if you save you get no lag.

This means that almost every character will evade the lag more than half the times. Add decent saves and it only happens once in a blue moon.

To really capitalise on sermon use you need to:

• be fighting a low mental saves opoenent in whcih case summon/dispel+path also works wonders.

-have a way to cut mental save better than -5 from curse

• be fighting a havely mana regeneration dependant class like a BMG

Its painful for any class. Warriors/zerks get no berserk/warcry, rangers lose almost all their ability to use class skills, Blms, and monks, get shafted, invokers are guaranteed to lose life because of sermon, and you still get a chance to get a titan bash once an hour? That seems like a fantastic skill to me. Combine that with + spell level eq, and certain cabal choices and your looking at a volatile combination.

change log

[08/05/07]: Sermon's duration has been increased.

[08/05/07]: Sermon is now subject to a saves check on the hour.

[10/29/06]: MAJOR FIX: Bug with clerics sermon not being saved against properly fixed.

The big problem with sermon efficiency is the fact that it checks saves every hour, and if you save you get no lag.

This means that almost every character will evade the lag more than half the times. Add decent saves and it only happens once in a blue moon.

To really capitalise on sermon use you need to:

• be fighting a low mental saves opoenent in whcih case summon/dispel+path also works wonders.

-have a way to cut mental save better than -5 from curse

• be fighting a havely mana regeneration dependant class like a BMG

Your math is not really accurate, since it goes on the assumption that sermon lag is coded to only land half the time with 0 saves.

You have a better assumption to present or just taking a shot at my post?

I'm not taking a shot at you, I'm pointing out that your statement was incorrect.

Negating mana regen is extremely powerful, especially for that many ticks. I don't foresee any tone-ups for clerics soon.

Negating mana regen is extremely powerful' date=' especially for that many ticks.[/quote']

No kidding. Utterly shuts down any other class trying to pull its own attrition tactics.

Yeah, sorry man, but Sermon is fine. If anything I'd say lower the duration.

The-Nameless beat me to it. With certain cabal choices and equipment you can make that minister even more nasty.

As Sepahoona I won at least a dozen pks from minister lag coinciding with holy hands procing. Minister is a very potent attrition tool, and can very quickly, and sudennlly turn a battle in your favor.

I second that. My last evil cleric's record was around 30-0.