Lag Attack Compounding

I am just trying to put a solution out there for an obvious problem for certain classes and against certain classes.

I would explain the situations I have encountered lately and then perhaps people would understand a bit better, but I cannot due to the fact that it's against forum rules. The real part of it would be as Zevaro(spelling?) pointed out, if I was in a fight and I was tripped, then tripped, I think the next trip would not be hitting me cause I would expect it. Or same goes for Bash, then bash, umm he might run into me again so whoop, you go running by. I agree that this is the best idea I have seen yet.

On the part of what Pali said, yes I have enjoyed learning how to deal with some weak tactics such as 1 skill wonders. At the same time, I find it more ridiculous than fun to have to make sure I'm perfectly ready in order to not get "caught" off guard. By that I mean, yes you can keep yourself spelled up with high AC and haste, but then a tick comes along and say protective shield drops and you get bashed by someone before the command goes through. That 1 tick of loss of protective shield just made you dead and naked. What punishment do you get? It is now next to impossible to compete with others(depending on the class) and takes what feels like an eternity to get equiped well enough to fight anyone. Not to mention you get the instant feeling of, WOW I just wasted this many hours of my life to get this gear and died to a dropped spell/bashlock luck for that jerk who now is decked. Your welcome person that knows to push the same button 10 times in a row.

This has happened to me with non-protective shield classes by many different people, and yes rangers can put out damage but certain classes can outdamage and lag them to death, and protective shield classes where it's fallen at a bad time. What has it done when it happens? Made the Pbase -1 for at least a week if not month maybe even a year. Last time it was a year when this trashy tactic was pulled off by a 1-skill wonder player. One who did it to TONS of people and made plenty of them mad as hell.

I am just trying to put a solution out there for an obvious problem for certain classes and against certain classes.

I would explain the situations I have encountered lately and then perhaps people would understand a bit better, but I cannot due to the fact that it's against forum rules. The real part of it would be as Zevaro(spelling?) pointed out, if I was in a fight and I was tripped, then tripped, I think the next trip would not be hitting me cause I would expect it. Or same goes for Bash, then bash, umm he might run into me again so whoop, you go running by. I agree that this is the best idea I have seen yet.

On the part of what Pali said, yes I have enjoyed learning how to deal with some weak tactics such as 1 skill wonders. At the same time, I find it more ridiculous than fun to have to make sure I'm perfectly ready in order to not get "caught" off guard. By that I mean, yes you can keep yourself spelled up with high AC and haste, but then a tick comes along and say protective shield drops and you get bashed by someone before the command goes through. That 1 tick of loss of protective shield just made you dead and naked. What punishment do you get? It is now next to impossible to compete with others(depending on the class) and takes what feels like an eternity to get equiped well enough to fight anyone. Not to mention you get the instant feeling of, WOW I just wasted this many hours of my life to get this gear and died to a dropped spell/bashlock luck for that jerk who now is decked. Your welcome person that knows to push the same button 10 times in a row.

This has happened to me with non-protective shield classes by many different people, and yes rangers can put out damage but certain classes can outdamage and lag them to death, and protective shield classes where it's fallen at a bad time. What has it done when it happens? Made the Pbase -1 for at least a week if not month maybe even a year. Last time it was a year when this trashy tactic was pulled off by a 1-skill wonder player. One who did it to TONS of people and made plenty of them mad as hell.

fight an undead syndicate monk and you will wish they were only bashing you... lol.

Not that you can elaborate, so this is a rhetorical question, but what would being a Syndicate do for that scenario?

Not that you can elaborate' date=' so this is a rhetorical question, but what would being a Syndicate do for that scenario? [/quote']

who knows, but it sounded good in my head.

' date=' but then a tick comes along and say protective shield drops and you get bashed by someone before the command goes through.[/quote']

THIS, is part of player skill.

Both ways.

Either for a DK who used Detect Magic and is ready to bash the moment it falls.

Either for a Cleric who can type AFF and know how much time of protective shield he has.

You can defend this pretty easy with Flee before tic and not being engaged the moment it falls.

Or by using Cancellation spell to make sure it is refreshed when you engage combat.

All this is Playing skill, that anyone can pick up with ease.

This is not something that you cannot prevent, or that you need to be rapid enough to beat his connection (think Mino Charge).

Crazy or not, I'm in full agreement with Mya's above post.

THIS, is part of player skill.

Both ways.

Either for a DK who used Detect Magic and is ready to bash the moment it falls.

Either for a Cleric who can type AFF and know how much time of protective shield he has.

You can defend this pretty easy with Flee before tic and not being engaged the moment it falls.

Or by using Cancellation spell to make sure it is refreshed when you engage combat.

All this is Playing skill, that anyone can pick up with ease.

This is not something that you cannot prevent, or that you need to be rapid enough to beat his connection (think Mino Charge).

Jibber fell for this once on Nyra.

A good player certainly wises up to it though, if you are fighting someone and notice them look at you, there is a high probabilty they are using detect magic. I catch the time remaining and work out what time its going to drop.

Any smart prot shield caster will then be well aware of what they are up against, and will retreat, or cancel the spell whilst in safety and recast.

Just to add my opinion:

If your class has ways to avoid lag attacks i.e. protetive shield/balance and you got laglocked then it's all your fault.

That being said, I've seen classes that laglock people for 3 ticks straight, which is ~25 rounds of combat not being able to put in a single command.

I believe those are the cases which Zavero was refering to. I can understand trying to prevent a dying victim from fleeing, but starting with lag and ending with lag from full HP to ZERO, especially if you are prepared for combat is a but rude and unfair. I can understand 4 lag attacks successful. I can understand five. But to keep someone laglocked for 3 ticks straight you need at least 12 successful lag attacks (bash, bodyslam, vamp skill, crusder skill).

Currently there is at least one active character who is lag monster and can do that.

In my opinion, a successful row of 4 lag attacks should highly reduce the possibilty of a successful fifth such. Have in mind that this is more than a tick of laglock.

My first thought:

I can't believe lag skills are being called broken because they can work on a cleric/mage who is stupid enough to let protective shield die mid-fight. Fighting when your prot shield is at 1 or 0 hours is as stupid as waltzing into combat with no sanctuary. It is entirely the fault of the player who does it, and has nothing to do with lag skills in FL being broken.

By that I mean, yes you can keep yourself spelled up with high AC and haste, but then a tick comes along and say protective shield drops and you get bashed by someone before the command goes through. That 1 tick of loss of protective shield just made you dead and naked.

Firstly, that would have to be pretty unlucky. Secondly, it is not good reasoning. You could use the same type of argument for nearly anything. For example:

Thieves are broken, because as a low HP class, I can have poison, sanc, and flight up. But suddenly poison drops and I get blackjacked. Then sanc wears off while I am asleep. Now the weak tactics of the one trick wonder thief can kill me with a double backstab. That one tick loss of poison just cost me everything.

Yes, protective shield classes can get caught sometimes with their pants down. But that is true of any class in FL.

My second thought:

I understand what you're trying to say about the frustration of being lag locked, but I simply don't agree with how frequent and easy you say it is to do against ANY class that doesn't have protective shield. By that rationale, any non-protective shield class is dead to any lagger. I have played heaps of berzerkers, and it was nearly NEVER my tactic to just walk in and start slamming, because if I did I'd quickly end up dead against anyone with half a brain.

My final thought:

Roll a berzerker, and ruin the pbase with their lag skills. If you do, I will sit quietly, eat my hat, and admit that zerks are 'one trick wonders' with weak tactics and lag is broken. It should be pretty easy if all you need to do is spam one command ten times to win.

Zerkers are not a very good example in this case Nekky, because as a zerker you need to use other skills (rage, haymaker, dirt).

But let's say you are a decked crusader, warrior, demon dkn, then all you have to do against non protective shield classes really is just spam lag command.

Well, he included bodyslam in the list of 'broken' skills ;p

A tic coming and protective shield dropping is a none issue. An attentive player will cancel the shield with 2 - 3 hours duration left and refresh.

What if...

The material type of your armor could add a bonus to bash evade?

For example, "Mithril" "Adamantite" and "Titanium".

Work in progress....

If there were some equation to reduce infinite lag I'd be playing more dks and ninjas. Sadly the way it is now, massive lag is much more difficult to overcome than it is for the giant that is doing the lagging. However we have to remember that some of these combos (i.e. warriors/saders) have a minuscule skill list in addition changing the way bash/bodyslam works may require a massive change in gameplay. But if this would strengthen the power of dks, paladins, ninjas, thieves then I'm all for this change but I'd also would like to see additional skills added that can help compensate for the dilution/loss.

I'd like to add too that while a lag attack from start to finish is possible, most times it simply will not work against a fully prepared opponent. As an enlarged, decked storm giant crusader I had folks manage to evade my lag ability VERY often. With my ability well over 100% I almost always had smaller non protective shield classes manage to evade and flee. Deffkoman is a prime example of this as was Nhilmatriel. Myrtaal was just ridiculous. As a zerk I missed nearly 10/10 bodyslams and only did slightly better as a crusader. Mephisoleer evaded me many times. The fairly recent nexus dkn managed to evade and recall. There are MANY more instances but my point is that it is very possible to help yourself in this situation, although there will be times where they may just have more luck than you do ; ) But think of all of the benefits most non PS classes have against those giant lagging monsters when it comes to fighting other types such as c/c's. A lagging class usually has a much more difficult time against PS classes. again JMHO.

Develop drugs for protective shield.

bwahahahaha, thats exactly what we need flying bashproof melees.

lol

I know right but seriously, I've been lagged so bad it isn't funny.

I don't think there is really a problem with it, just how giant races can get bigger than giant size then continue to lag the hell out of you.

There should definately be some lee-way in there for one or two commands, no one should ever be completely lagged until death. But that's my opionion.

The trouble stems from this consumable enlarge and giants using it.... Ouch, something hurts, must be a thought, (or I just got laglocked!) I will give this some attention and get back to you with if not a balancing Idea, something going in the right direction.

I think a lot of people have missed the point of the argument I made many times over. I do not think lag skills are "broken". Obviously they aren't when you can laglock people. I think the game has an issue when classes, (almost any non-giant one) can be laglocked from 100% hp to 0%. I know multiple people who have permashelved due to this type of thing and some who have just straight up quit. The lag-locking tactic causes more of a problem for the pbase than people are noticing. Maybe this is because I talk to tons of people on AIM, but I can count at least 3 people that have quit due to lag locking tactics. That's 3 too many.

I'm not saying take out consecutive lagging, but like Foxx said. I have seen people with 1k hp get lagged to 0 in well over 20 rounds of combat with flee attempted at the first lag and never going through due to lag. That is insane, and I do not blame my friend for quitting FL and going somewhere else. If that happened to me, if it wasn't my fault due to prep(which people say it is but AC/Haste only do so much). You think I haven't tried everything in the book? I've been here since day 1, I have tried more than most people I can guarantee that. Aside from putting my lagable class on the shelf, there is nothing you can do against monster lag-locking classes. I'm just lucky to have not quit yet, with the hope something will eventually be changed(fixed) with this situation.

On points of the classes that get these abilities. I would play a warrior in a heartbeat if they had more command skills that did more things. I think that is my biggest problem with them. They are sort of 1 trick wonders. It's very sad when warriors are supposed to be the "balanced fighter" class that they are and aren't.