Shaman suggestion

I have been playing a shaman for some time now and no matter of the high survivability they have, I think they are lacking something... not to talk that against a decked character they have like 0 chance. I remember fighting Lotho, even with deteriorate, curse and at least 10 phantom grasp landed (not to count the failed ones) I was still unnable to land anything at all.... Hell even if his connection had dropped I would have still been unable to kill him...how does this sound? There is just something wrong here... to fix this I have a small and simple suggestions:

Replace Harm + phantom grasp and put magic missle on their place.

How would this change things? It will give shamans a chance to fight those with untouchable saves. Against those with not so good saves...who would bother to cast them if they can land the important mals without casting it anyway....

The way it is now, phantom grasp is just completely useless... deteriorate + curse is not enough for a class that relies on nothing else than mals...

A halfling healer is going to be the hardest thing this side of an undead for a shaman to take out. Especially a super decked one. Expect to have a hard time targeting a magic resistant race who has saves. Then fight that ogre and watch how easy it is. Welcome to balancing.

Against Lotho when he was decked, I am very surprised you landed anything at all. I remember when I played an elf healer, with 60+ mal and 20+ saves, lorfaine still managed to land almost everything (although I am sure he hated the difficulty and time it took to do this). Not to mention that halfling already have a boost to magic resistance.

Shamans don't need anything else. Go after an ogre and have a field day.

Wanted a suggestion for Shamans?

Delete them. God I hate Shamans.

I was under the impression that shamans are quite strong. Taking Lotho as an example isn't really fair. On a magic resist race with SICK (see his deletion thread) saves, you should have a hard time landing stuff.

So...you're complaining about not being able to kill saved up players? Why should you be able to kill them when you have a high chance of staying alive? This doesnt make sense to me. Those who stock up on + save gear lose hit/dam.

Shamans are many things, but lacking is not one of them. It takes a very smart and different play style, but when played properly I'd say they are easily one of the strongest classes out there.

The healer doesn't need the hit/dam anyway, so he has nothing elese to gather than saves/ac. That is not the point here tho. I am not talking about killing, hell I know that even if he is naked I have no chance to kill him unless I land blasphemy and if that happens, poof, and he is gone.

I am talking about at least having even the smallest chance... no matter how decked one character is, one should never be in a situation when you cannot kill a char even if his connection falls, and that was exactly the case here....

You know how our battles were going? Him staying at one place, NOT MOVING AT ALL, not chasing, not doind ANYTHING COMPLETELY. Oh I forgot, he was talking during the battle, while I was casting spells he was giving me hints...then I flee, sleep (notice he is not moving at all), I beging combat again and he is just standing there like a rock doing nothing... having in mind that my character at that time had some quite nice wares as well...

Hell I am not even talking about that elf blademaster against who I have never landed anything else than deteriorate... about the storm giant ranger who wooped my *** while wearing mithril and it was still taking me hell long to land a spell, even with deteriorate and curse....

Everyone seems to ignore my suggestion saying "You are giving a bad example using Lotho....". But that is generelly the case with anything else out there. Mages will have high saves most of the time so deteriorate + curse is not enough, meles will have something like moderate saves against which you cannot cast deteriorate as they are too low, but it still takes like 5-6 attempts to land a simple spell while they are dealing 100+ damage each round...

Very simple shaman advice:

Start small, landing things that cannot be cured but aren't "deal-breakers" (make them insta-flee). If you get caught in a one-trick setting (there's no need to dispel a storm giant warrior in mithril: weaken, poison, plague, blind, etc are all MUCH better choices) you will fail miserably with a shaman. A shaman's strength is patience and know-how. It takes a skilled player to be a monster with a shaman, but a skilled player makes a shaman a nightmare.

a storm giant ranger, huh? wooooooo

it sounds like a problem with player skill to say the truth...

if nothing else, go find an item that gives a spell which does unblockable damage and just sit there

to kill any healer, you basically have to land a minor mal or two (blind and enfeeble/curse for instance) THEN get the blasphemy...usually a healer won't flee after only two mals...blasph will cause them to run away...use the voodoo to land another mal (such as plague) and now just chase...and hope they don't have an esuna item

Bring back 1.0 phantom grasp and demonic visage!

Now, I haven't played a shaman in a while, but I'm fairly sure eq hasn't really changed much since my last. And while yes, it can take many attempts to land spells, that's how it goes as a shaman. The key is to make sure that you land spells that will, no matter what they do, harm your opponent as the fight goes on. Land stuff like dysentery that can't be cured. Shamans already have +mal level to help them land stuff, so if you're getting your butt kicked around the block, maybe you're playing it wrong. If you need some advice, feel free to PM me, though recognize that I'm not the best shaman player here.

f0xx is right,you are speaking about something that has nothing to do with his point.You are giving him some kind of noobish advices how to kill someone with a shaman.He is asking you how to kill someone after he cannot land anything else than curse and deteriorate?What he has to do?This guy is speaking to him while fighting goddamit and you call this balanced class.Shamans are communers bane right?How a shaman can be bane of anything after you cannot land one goddamn spell?I played two shamans and f0xx is right,at level 50 agains enemy in mithril armor I couldn't land anything.

P.S after Shendamarin I am sure that Immortals tuned something down about shamans but I forget what is what?IS there any possibility that the imm's toned down the drow shamans?

I played a fairly successful shaman, but of course a decked halfer healer is gonna pound you. I am gonna assume that all your spells were mastered but beyond that there is some eq that raises prof levels for some mals. And as it was stated already you have to be super patient with a shaman, what mals you use and when are very very important. It was even said in the original post that even if blasphemy landed, poof he would be gone. Well that has nothing to do with class balance, that is about chasing. Shaman have to chase like nobodies business.

Heh, I remember chasing an ogre from Tarandue to Marak when he recalled, and that was before I knew the shortcut.

f0xx is right' date='you are speaking about something that has nothing to do with his point.You are giving him some kind of noobish advices how to kill someone with a shaman.He is asking you how to kill someone after he cannot land anything else than curse and deteriorate?What he has to do?This guy is speaking to him while fighting goddamit and you call this balanced class.Shamans are communers bane right?How a shaman can be bane of anything after you cannot land one goddamn spell?I played two shamans and f0xx is right,at level 50 agains enemy in mithril armor I couldn't land anything.[/quote']

No, monks are communer's banes. Communer classes are generally the more difficult classes for a shaman to get. Shamans are the bane of melee classes - and they are a very, very PATIENT class.

Sorry, but I rarely had difficulty playing my shaman. The times that I lost were times that I became too impatient, trying to get one more mal off before fleeing to heal...

Deteriorate increases the -saves depending on how high the saves are to start with. Generally, land deteriorate FIRST, then drop curse and maybe phantom grasp if you need. THat way, your final -saves are MUCH lower, because deteriorate took off more in the first place.

Against an undead or a healer, you're pretty much in for a battle lasting ... forever. Even top-notch shamans like Lorfaine stalemated with healers 9 out of 10 times.

Against rangers and storm warriors just in mithril? Sorry, but I would say you need to adjust your play style. Don't stay in combat with them. Drop deteriorate, enfeeble, maybe curse if his damage isn't too bad. Then run and heal. Heal while running, keeping him on your 'where'. He'll probably be chasing, so you're eating up his moves with enfeeble. When you are healed up enough, go back in and drop weaken and poison. Then heal again. He probably won't care too much about poison until his moves run out and he can't rest. The weaken and poison will let you stay in combat longer to drop some more mals. So your next hit is dysentery and visitation, and close with plague if you can stay there.

Or flee and voodoo plague. Then just refresh the mals as needed, and keep him chasing you until he turns to run. Then YOU give chase until he runs out of moves.

Your goal is more to run them out of moves/mana than it is to run them out of HP. Only when they cannot get away do you start working for the kill. Even against a storm giant in mithril, which should be a piece of cake, it may take you half an hour to finish it.

Against someone like Lotho... well, make sure you have the day off. And don't need to sleep. Ever.

NOTE: There are items in the lands that boost the casting lvl of your mals. Get a few ranks on it, and you should be able to cut through mal saves SUBSTANTIALLY easier. Find them. Use them. Love them.

Okay, whatever, everyone is discussing everything else EXCEPT the actuall suggestion...

Just forget about it.

Replace Harm + phantom grasp and put magic missle on their place.

How would this change things? It will give shamans a chance to fight those with untouchable saves. Against those with not so good saves...who would bother to cast them if they can land the important mals without casting it anyway....

The way it is now, phantom grasp is just completely useless... deteriorate + curse is not enough for a class that relies on nothing else than mals...

People aren't discussing the change because they are discussing your reasons FOR the change, which they find lacking. This change is neither necessary nor useful (I'd rather have harm and phantom grasp still).

Should have watched Olom bringing down all the super tough guys with insane saves. Was fun to watch.

first off monks are easy for shamans to kill, once mass hysteria lands they are effectivly shut down. The key is not staying in battle when prot shield falls.

Shaman is a pure hit and run class, never stay in combat for more than two or three rounds. With Lorfaine I maintained an 80% hp at all times, always casting this or that then fleeing to recover. Healers are your nemesis, so you will definatly have trouble with them. Even so, if you are persistent enough you will bring them down like everyone else. The key is the order of your mal's, try landing things that arent neccesarily disasterous to the target class. I would always hit a healer with visitation, and plague, then blind and blasphemy. Once blasphemy hit its all over. Mind you I fought Ecasio many many times, though neither of us ever won. It was always a long drawn out battle usually forcing one or the other into retreat. I landed mals on Ecasio, just took uch much persistence and they were sigil.

If you have not mastered everything, master it. Insomnia is key to this, also remember that some spells land easier than others, if you have landed curse, deteriorate and a series of phant-grasps yet you cant seem to plague them..switch to something else. Dont forget dispel either. Different spells effect different saves and they cant have them all.

Always hit melees with mass hysteria, and casters with insomnia as early as you can. Keep in mind as well that plague + enfeeblement = the greatest move draining combo around.

As far as Removing phantom grasp, thats a rediculous suggestion. Phantom Grasp is how a shaman peels an opponets saves back like a banana.