Defending Cabal Entrances

I don't know if this is going to be considered too much info - if so, please move it to the prayer forum. I don't think it will reveal anything people don't already know.

Ok - so, you're in your cabal or nearby and notice a hide-class at your entrance. Let's say it's a ninja at the Knight's cabal entrance for argument's sake. Now, said ninja is able to hide at the entrance, to study whoever is inside while the guardian does nothing about it. To make matters worse, if the person inside (or outside) wants to defend, he/she has to HIT the cabal guardian with an area spell unless they have faerie fog.

Now, this seems a bit unrealistic to me. If I ran a business, let's say it was a night club, and I had a bouncer (guardian) watching the doors - I would be pretty upset if he was letting people loiter outside the club doors peeking their heads in the door but not paying. I would expect the bouncer to throw their arses out.

So, I have come up with a few different possible solutions and I would like some feedback.

1. Make cabal guardians attack anyone not aligned with the cabal who is above rank 30 (at that rank they can easily flee and have little-to-no risk of dying)

2. Make the cabal entrance belong to the RP of said cabal. Ex: Nexus is a dark, dingy place - yes, people can hide at the entrance, not camo. Knight is the shining example of hope - do not allow hiding there, but yes camo. Savant is all mages, there shouldn't be hiding or camo'ing. Tribunal hunts criminals, so criminals shouldn't be allowed to stalk them at their entrance, no hide or camo. Warmaster has rangers - makes sense they can camo, but not hide. Syndi and Watcher - obviously should be able to hide and camo (if possible)

3. Make it so if a cabal member casts an area spell or effect - it doesn't hit the guardian. Give the guardian the same protections that group members get.

I bring this up mainly because of ninjas and thieves abusing it and I don't believe it's annoying only to me. I appreciate the perspective of the player base.....

The way I see it, it's another way for Ninja's to assassinate even easier. Even then, I've seen several notes in game, stating: Cabal members may NOT stay in their cabal, they may only be there to buy/do other things! But let's look at this. You have several rooms in the cabal that help with various things. I'm not going to say anything about them because it'll give out too much info; it's bogus nevertheless.

No more aggressive Cabal Guards: Easier Ninja assassinations

Removal of clan hall doors: Easier Ninja assassinations

Making it so victim HAS to be sleeping for a ninjitsu skill to work: Harder Ninja easy assassinations

Cabal Members can't stay in Cabal over long periods of time, and only may use services, et cetera then must leave: Easier Ninja assassinations

All in all I don't think it's balanced yet. I would LOVE this to be implemented. There's been so many times when I've been assassinated while defending against enemy cabals, (by, or not by other cabal'd ninjas). But with the whole Cabal interferance thing, it makes it illegal, yet, it's still possible. I still lose a life for some .. cough .. being a jerk, breaking the rules. Not sure about punishments in that area, but that's none of my business; the fact is I still lose a life because of it.

If we make Cabal Guardians aggressive to anyone above the rank of 40 (not 30, too low IMHO) then this kind of nonsense would basically stop, and make it a tad bit harder for those ninjas running around landing all those incredibly easy assassinates. Also, if Cabal Guardians would be so kind and NOT let mobs into Cabal Grounds, that'd be nice as well. Anyone ever seen a leopard from a ranger, or other skills from different classes which create mobs just.. walk right in? Yeah...

Just my 2 cents, and I'm sure a lot of it will be turned down anyway.

Yeah, 40 would be best, I just figured since so much else happens (or stops) at 30 that it would be fitting.

About assassinations, I agree. Though I want to make it a point that it's the defense of the cabal (the fact that you have to hit your own guardian to get a hide-class out) that drove me to create this thread. The return of cabal doors should also be included.

Re: Assassinations, my philosophy is if they want to hide from my eyes, I'm going to hide from their studies.

Ninjas are the most non-sensical RP class in the game and, frankly, I'd love to see them removed. But I digress....

Cabal doors still exist, but you're not allowed to stay within your Cabal for long periods of time, or so I heard.

I agree whole heartedly: If they want to hide from you, you may as well be able to hide from their studies. If you remove HIDE from ninjas, I'd have no problem with everything the way it is, but we all know that won't happen

Technically, if a ninja is studying you, you shouldn't be aware that they are sensing your movement. It might be a good idea to implement this concept: ie, if you detect the ninja in the area, they lose a portion of their study or they find it much more harder to assassinate.

That would most possibly be the least we could do. I've been studied for 4-5 hours, and the ninja never once had to come out of hiding, while I defended the altar. That would be nice, though, if that could even be coded, but I have a feeling it'd be a hard thing to do. I still want all cabal guards to attack 40+, kinda like what they did a long time ago.

I have a simple suggestion for ninjas.

When they meditate, make it so that they can't move around or do anything at all. It makes RP sense (as of now, ninjas run around/run around, auto-meditating on the tick while running for dear life), and would also make it a bit harder to fully study/assassinate someone while they are aware of you, and trying to draw you out with area spells.

Faerie fog is an area spell. It doesn't initiate combat, but it does make people yell.

Ninja's can run around and meditate at the same time? I didn't know that, I thought they had to be in one place or it wouldn't be as good of a study? I've played a ninja before, and I've been assassinated by a ninja as well. I think ninja's are fine, perhaps you should watch your back more?(As much as you can, I know you might not have detect hidden) Getting a good study can be very tedious.

It's the people that sit around in one place that make a ninja's job easy. You people who sit there and role play, are prime targets for a ninja who wants to kill you. There are ways to avoid ninja attacks. But just like every other class, there are crappy ninja's, and there are players that can play good ninjas.

Lastly, I disagree that ninja's are the most non-sensical RP class in the game. Any character can have a role play, it doesn't matter what class you are. Generally ninja's tend to be the "silent killers" but that doesn't mean they have to role play that type.

Haha, auto attacking cabal guards. Back in 1.0.

Exploring with my newbie. Don't know much about FL, so I better map it out, get to know the lay out.........BAM! 'You dont' belong here xxxxx!"

You've been killed.

WTF is this bs. Delete delete.

Happened to me more than once or twice to.

Any autoattacking cabal guards will be with level limitations. At low levels, they would just push the char away.

Makes sense so you don't dropkick newbies or lowbies. I think 30 or 40 would be a reasonable level for them to dropkick people.

Damn good idea.

If the ninja is hiding and studying you, how would the guard see him? He is hiding! I do not think there is a problem with ninjas or cabal areas at all, getting a full study and landing an assassinate is not as easy as the snap of a finger, especially if you go for certain ninjitsu.

As for the terrain being camo/hide friendly or not, it is already like that to a certain degree. As a thief or ninja it is a long ride to the Knight Castle before you have any chance to hide, and last I checked you have one room to hide in, so it would be very easy to bring that hidden person out. Granted for the other cabal areas there is more room to hide and camouflage, but these are key skills for rangers, druids, thieves and ninjas, why dont we make a rule that healers cant use their prayers when on enemy turf. I say leave it be.

I would really really love to see auto attacking cabal guards back if you are not a member of that cabal. Course have it level restricted. I died way way to much as a newbie to those damnable guards at low levels. But if they are high enough, they can deal with it.

All for it!

Ninja's can run around and meditate at the same time? I didn't know that, I thought they had to be in one place or it wouldn't be as good of a study? I've played a ninja before, and I've been assassinated by a ninja as well. I think ninja's are fine, perhaps you should watch your back more?(As much as you can, I know you might not have detect hidden) Getting a good study can be very tedious.

It's the people that sit around in one place that make a ninja's job easy. You people who sit there and role play, are prime targets for a ninja who wants to kill you. There are ways to avoid ninja attacks. But just like every other class, there are crappy ninja's, and there are players that can play good ninjas.

Lastly, I disagree that ninja's are the most non-sensical RP class in the game. Any character can have a role play, it doesn't matter what class you are. Generally ninja's tend to be the "silent killers" but that doesn't mean they have to role play that type.

Odd I always thought it disturbed you and you had to do it again when you moved -confused-

Also a many ninjas aren't silent by choice. Hell if everyone wanted to kill you just because even though you were rarely aggressive or just doing your job, or you were say insane, or a mute.... I mean yeah. -shrug-

I am trying to relearn the ropes with rogues myself so heh.

And I would never knowingly and assassinate an rp group in town square, study/watch or whatever sure. Hell I'd join in and cause a mess or whatnot and act all insane or stupid or sad or whatever just because it's so rarely heard of!

Yes. That would be a rad do nothing ninja ability. Drop Kick. Like BOOM! I was on the higher ground now I went down a step (just imagine pushing yourself a room down, and it only working as such. -laughs- pointless and a pain to code. Just personal amusement. Yes I talk too much.)

I don't like it how they attack you even if you are a ghost. Can't really get back to your corpse if you die there.

This thread has digressed, though it is my fault for adding that line about ninjas.

Ninjas aren't the only problem. Thieves, rangers, druids and (to a lesser extent) bards can also hide at your entrance. If I was playing a thief and there was a cabal'd character on...what better place to get a look at his potentially decked arse than his cabal!? Walk in to entrance...

A deep pain erupts in your skull.

You go to sleep.

...plucked clean.

Or you're playing a ranger in an opposing cabal. Often, cabal'd members will go to their cabal to rest, heal, write notes, wait for mals to drop, etc...chances are that char is either about to be unprepared to fight or already is. You walk to your entrance...

Ranger steps out from his camo

Ranger's surprise attack WHATEVERS you!

...you get the point. It's not just a ninja problem.

As for Chayesh's suggestion about faerie fog, 1) Not many classes have the spell and 2) It's not minister, so it doesn't land easily

The thing is though, you could argue that for anywhere. What's stopping that ranger from camoing one room further south, for example, and attacking when you leave? I think Cabal halls shouldn't be thought of as safe houses - not just anyone can wander in, that's more than enough safety. You still need to be keep aware of others. Wandering out your halls without protections? That too is arguable for anywhere, and I know that I wouldn't walk out of my Cabal hall not spelled up.

At the end of the day, you can say it's perfect to victimize the Caballers because they will have to be moving to and from their halls and so hiders/camoers can utilize that to their advantage but I don't see it as that much different from the same in towns and whatnot, and it comes with the territory at the end of the day. I don't think the intent of a Cabal hall is to provide a safehouse, but rather, a place where only members of their Cabal can commune, get services and whatever, and that's it. Imagine a town like Rheydin, on a smaller scale, where the guards let only their citizens in so that they get their citizens-only benefits. Imagine it like the small rogue group of bandits who hide in the forests nearby cities to hold-up people coming to and from the towns.

Dey