Marcella SYNDICATE vs Haexis WARMASTER

49 minutes ago, Manual Labour said:

Only the string bard can do it easily, effortlessly and with such certainly.

Not being able to flee doesn't mean death. There is a multitude of ways to escape that. Now if you get auto-blind first round, then tough luck, you shouldn't have gotten caught. But a lot of stars need to align in order for that to happen. First, the skill needs to land, second, it needs to land for 2 ticks, and third the autoblind needs to land. Those are almost impossible odds. Yes, those are going to happen rarely, but nothing is guaranteed. I remember some time ago I fought Nekky's zerk with one of my BLMs. I was beating his ass big time (as usual), but then he landed a haymaker and his dragon bashed the round after. Tough luck. 

51 minutes ago, Manual Labour said:

many combos catch you without sanc and have a good chance to kill you, yes. but vs any combo you mentioned there is also a good chance of escape

How do you escape from laglock from a heavy melee that caught you with sanc down? This goes warrior, zerker, crusader, vampire, monk, necro, DKN even ranger in some cases.

Why do you find it normal to get killed by laglock when caught without sanc against a melee, but unusual to get killed by a bard under similar circumstances?

I will say that any amount of saves really negates magnificent solo. I’ve had one and played against one, it’s managable.

Cant you just eat a pill or smoke a herb now to resanc? 

Whats the issue? 

Can you use shifu's shawl, or quaff a recall, or use an orb of recall/stone of recall, or eat a pill of teleport or skylauncher or... (do I need to keep going?)

Whats the issue? 

Is this a cabal related issue? That you can't use those items? ---> Well thats a choice you made for your character. While you'll have a higher POWER PEAK you'll also open yourself up to other issues which wouldn't effect you if you weren't in WM. Thats life. Thats why you get cabal skills. 

Yawn.

EDIT: I also recall Ivesianna roflstomping everyone. Including multiple bards before the toning.... Maybe it was a luck thing? ;)

He's a Barbarian. He can do all those things. I think the issue is combined with autoblind so you can't do most of that stuff, but also several aspects of insane survivability like dirt and lag resist, combined with the ability to end a fight due to one mistake via a rage mechanic, combined with the ability to sleep anyone needing you to also manage poison or else get the entire kit loaded up on you, combined with them having huge sustain via infinite mana and hp songs, combined with shadowform so that you don't even necessarily know the person is on to prepare, combined with the one in the log also having potential qclass abilities, combined with having all Bard abilities belonging to their own saves category so you have to manage your EQ just for them, just makes Bards a bit frustrating to fight against. 

Not impossible, not unbeatable, but very frustrating.

The person with arguably the most Bard experience here (Trick) thinks they're extremely strong even after the toning. Do we really not care what he thinks?

Edit: People on more than one occasion have compared Bards to Psis saying they were similar... but psis are funneled into mental saves, HAVE been nerfed because of their strength, and are a Qclass. If Bards were a Qclass and limited to one or two slots, the issue would be a lot less notable. You'd expect them to be very strong and they'd be held to Q standards. Seems like a win.

if bards were a qclass, the player behind this one would still be a bard. So, likely nothing changes in a good way.

If bards were a qclass, there would never have been a Kipple, or a Glenlow, or a Grebit.

In short, if bards were a qclass nothing would be different except there would be fewer players actually able to play one.

Having played many bards. I know that in this Log the drow was damned from the start. He did NOT have an adequate avenue to blind the bard. Blinding the bard is detremental to the bards survival, as is lagging them. While the blade master struggles here, Pas two rounded kipple and stole his heart. The Savant necro two rounded Grebit.

Does the bard have to be weak vs every class before people accept they are not OP? There is a word for that. GIMPED.

If bards are so strong, why are there so few around? Because it takes practice to do what this one is doing. But its easier to claim they are over powered than to admit they out played you. When you fail to prepare, you prepared to fail.

My 2 cents

We obviously care what Trick thinks about bards as he has been the voice for some of these changes. However, he hasn't played one since the recent changes (that I am aware of) so of course he would be challenged to play one now.

13 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said:

Cant you just eat a pill or smoke a herb now to resanc? 

Whats the issue? 

Can you use shifu's shawl, or quaff a recall, or use an orb of recall/stone of recall, or eat a pill of teleport or skylauncher or... (do I need to keep going?)

Whats the issue? 

Is this a cabal related issue? That you can't use those items? ---> Well thats a choice you made for your character. While you'll have a higher POWER PEAK you'll also open yourself up to other issues which wouldn't effect you if you weren't in WM. Thats life. Thats why you get cabal skills. 

Yawn.

EDIT: I also recall Ivesianna roflstomping everyone. Including multiple bards before the toning.... Maybe it was a luck thing? ;)

Actually since Danpher got magic items completely nerfed from WM that also applies to barbarians now. I cannot use the shifu shawl, and no Ulmu you cannot TP out of combat at all.

I was blind for the duration of the rage keeping me in combat, so NONE of your proposed solutions are viable. Yawn.

But thanks for trying to be helpful. Yawn.

Maybe next time you will offer some actual useful advice. Yawn.

Next time I'll be sure to use more cabal skills. Yawn.

Ivesianna is a totally different kettle of fish, who also caused several nerfs to blms. Yawn.

Maybe beating a bard is easier when you can automatically disarm their noremoves for free while you  are enlarged and hasted and have an enlarged hasted vanguard. Yawn.

Anyway clearly I am in the minority. You all think that 2 ticks being locked in combat is balanced. Yawn.

Fair enough. Yawn.

Yawn.

Yeah something is up with usable items and WM. I can use some things but can't use other things. It's a little confusing and I imagine it's even more so for the Barbarians. 

Practor

Anonymous poster hash: 9c058...6d0

At this point I don't believe ML cares what anyone has to say. It's pretty much established this log is full not errors. Every choice that was made was wrong from the blms side. Fighting in the city, bad saves, no vuln, wrong stance, didn't consider leaving til it was too late, no Anat specialization. This combined with a super decked bard landing every song and bad status effect they need is why the pk was lost.

8 hours ago, Manual Labour said:

Ivesianna is a totally different kettle of fish, who also caused several nerfs to blms.=

What nerfs did Ivesianna cause to BLMs?

I don't remember reading any changes regarding such...

2 hours ago, f0xx said:

What nerfs did Ivesianna cause to BLMs?

I don't remember reading any changes regarding such...

None that I'm aware of. I'm also shocked to find out she was only decent once getting Leader. Wonder how she got there...

@Manual Labour You got caught. Thats what getting caught is; an ass-wooping.

She got the elf/drow bonus to critical strike nerfed. It no longer lands 100% for them.