Ninjitsu idea.

What about changing the ninjitsu paths up so that they are way more unique and only one will be able to assassinate.

Example.

Falcon eye ninjas rely on stealth and are the ninjitsu that allows you to assassinate.

Shadow arts ninjas have sweet melee abilities, maybe like some kind of super dirt, some lag type things, a midrounder, something, ya know?

Lotus scourge gets cool mal type abilities like advanced caltraps or some kind of plague ability or super-nerve pinch or various other things of that nature.

Was thinking on the ninja issue that came with Phamane's departure, and this setup came to mind. What do you think?

I like the idea. Remember to make assassinate path really a stealth path. Skilled assassinate ninjas like phamane have nothing in common with stealth.

Yes Best Idea Ever!! What other lore do you have in mind for the doublesheath or death kiss path?

Perhaps we could have the doublesheat path moved to the melee side of ninjas, so they get shadow arts and doublesheat together?

Only problem I see is that the melee ninja may still not have enough to deal with such strong melee opposition.

Only problem I see is that the melee ninja may still not have enough to deal with such strong melee opposition.

The things is, they are not supposed to. They have mal options -> poison, blindness, caltraps (which should affect flying opponents), nerve. They need some sort of bash evasion skill that would be available only to the melee side too.

The things is' date=' they are not supposed to. They have mal options -> poison, blindness, caltraps (which should affect flying opponents), nerve. They need some sort of bash evasion skill that would be available only to the melee side too.[/quote']

So a melee ninja is not supposed to have a chance against other melees? Also those skills you mentioned have become a joke these days. I've certainly never been even remotely worried about them on any of my characters unless it was from an incredibly decked ninja.

Calraps has become useless since flying now ignores it (by the same logic, shouldn't flying ignore enfeeble? It's not like you're using your legs). Nerve has always been fairly useless since it's such a small -str effect... it's not something I recall ever using in a fight as a ninja, as throw, push, flee/murder, etc. are almost always better tactical options.

Poison is something most people inflict upon themselves when fighting ninjas or thieves (and I really, REALLY hate people doing this), so that's useless. Blindness is useful, but pretty much only if you manage to get the strangle off, and even then it's a pretty easily cured blind - if you're already in combat then dirt is much, much more reliable.

If you're not planning to be using assassinate, I honestly cannot think of any reason why someone would pick a ninja over a thief.

So a melee ninja is not supposed to have a chance against other melees?

Yes, considering you play your ninja as a pure melee. It is like saying a thief cannot beat a warrior in pure melee and so he is underpowered. Thieves, just like ninjas though, are not supposed to be pure melee.

If you're not planning to be using assassinate, I honestly cannot think of any reason why someone would pick a ninja over a thief.

This is something I completely agree with. The ninja class as a whole needs a major revamp. I don't understand why the doublesheat skill was taken away and put as ninjitsu.

I say just do away with death kiss, give all ninjitsu's double sheath.

As far as melee ninja vs warrior/zerker, maybe improve decoy, allow them to learn cure serious, and just generally up that paths skills a little bit, maybe give them riposte, ya know? So that a cunning ninja would maybe have a few ninja tricks to go the distance with a pure melee class.

I think the idea is pretty good over all. I have been thinking about ninja paths for a long long time. This is what I have always leaned towards.

Melee Path: Still stealthy but melee oriented. Stronger melee ability than say a thief or bard, but not as powerful as warrior/monk/blademaster.

Abilities would include: Side-Step (About as defensive as parry), Shadow Arts, and Doublesheath.

Stealth Path: Keep Study and Assassinate, can ONLY study and retain it out of combat. making it more difficult to be an "oops I got him" or "Hahaha I ran circles and got you" assassin. Make study take a bit more ability, like straight lines perhaps? Maybe give them a way to put people to sleep even if they are poisoned, and make assassinate only work if that person is asleep.

True Rogue Path: Get an upgraded form of poisons/blindness dusts and plague dust. Upgrade nerve for them, tie grapple into an "air thrash" type of ability, pulling them out of the air and onto the ground for caltrapping. The path would be entirely dependent on doing things right. Like a thief, you do it wrong and you're gonna be lagged to death. Give them improved vanish to make it a bit easier to get out of "sticky" situations.

I dunno, I hate the stealth aspect of ninjas for the reason that I feel that thieves are more of ninjas than ninjas are. Ninjas were assassins but good enough fighters to take on samurai, which are like the bad-asses of the fighting world...It just doesn't really add up to me.

If we gave ninjas paths.

path one - stays virtually the same. Assassins path.

path two - melee oriented, loses assassinate, study, and spirit magic, gains third defense, some new form of "air thrash", and double sheath. Ninjitsu still selectable.

path three - uses magic for subterfuge, loses assassinate, study, and limits ninjitsu selections (no falcons eye, no shadow arts), gains magic spells to make them competitive, maybe a boost to spirit magic, modified chill touch, modified flame strike, and maybe word of recall/cure serious/dispel magic.

just a thought, but in the old Ninja movies there were melee style ninjas AND some capable of greater magics.

I say just do away with death kiss, give all ninjitsu's double sheath.

As far as melee ninja vs warrior/zerker, maybe improve decoy, allow them to learn cure serious, and just generally up that paths skills a little bit, maybe give them riposte, ya know? So that a cunning ninja would maybe have a few ninja tricks to go the distance with a pure melee class.

ditto- im just looking for something to make the ninja class to be able to compete. Yeah, and the double sheath idea is bomb- considering if you took the time to master throw and edge, unless you picked double sheath as you nin- it is almost pointless.

If we gave ninjas paths.

path one - stays virtually the same. Assassins path.

path two - melee oriented, loses assassinate, study, and spirit magic, gains third defense, some new form of "air thrash", and double sheath. Ninjitsu still selectable.

path three - uses magic for subterfuge, loses assassinate, study, and limits ninjitsu selections (no falcons eye, no shadow arts), gains magic spells to make them competitive, maybe a boost to spirit magic, modified chill touch, modified flame strike, and maybe word of recall/cure serious/dispel magic.

just a thought, but in the old Ninja movies there were melee style ninjas AND some capable of greater magics.

I was thinking of that myself- like path three, it opens it up to another lvl of combat- where you wouldn't just have to flee most of the time. : /

Also I was thinking of- what would happen if a ninja completely shunned the study and assassinate game, you think he would either pick up some more combat skills or even a spell or two in the process of training. Mabey find a way to utilize thrown weapons? Like a big *** throwing star haha.

Path three would be epic- like shadow manipulation... or sumthin hrmmm

oh yeah and extra defense should be called after image lol.

Yes' date=' considering you play your ninja as a pure melee. It is like saying a thief cannot beat a warrior in pure melee and so he is underpowered. Thieves, just like ninjas though, are not supposed to be pure melee.[/quote']

You're taking what I said out of context. I asked if melee ninjas are supposed to stand up to melees. I never said how (meaning they don't have to beat them in pure melee combat) but they should have other means. Thieves for instance have the other means.

The ninja class as a whole needs a major revamp. I don't understand why the doublesheath skill was taken away and put as ninjitsu.

Well ninjas were seen as being majorly overpowered way back then. So I can imagine that the many things that were taken away from them were to balance them out. Yet they lost so many things at once so I'm thinking it was difficult to see the long lasting effects of it.

If you meditate on a study you should keep it regardless of combat or not. I can see making any study that has not been meditated over go away the moment you are attacked though. Ninjas do need something. I don't think they should be able to straight stand with melees but they should have ways to help them that gives them advantages.

I would like to see ninjas have a better version of poison other than one that just makes it to where they cannot strangle their opponent.

Dont tell me this died- I wont let it.

I say, forget assassinate- thats all ninjas are.

unless we're going with the paths, im sure one option would stay with it.

Im still stewing about the Subterfuge- and the mystical ninja thing. Increased nerve would be nice for that. Though that may scare some... hehe

Trying to keep ninjas alive

Anyone else still have ideas? Even if not going to be implemented- im sure the imms like the thoughts.

I already said what needs to be done, revamping the lotus scourge, returning good old caltraps that affect flying opponent and a better nerve.It is not that hard to be implemented

I already said what needs to be done' date=' revamping the lotus scourge, returning good old caltraps that affect flying opponent and a better nerve.It is not that hard to be implemented[/quote']

I've only played the ninja with shadow arts- so i dont know about the lotus.... i would think poisioning someone would just make it harder to assassinate and what not...

And those caltraps- omg, finally a way to lower a vamps/demon's dex hehe.